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Richard Stallman resigns from CSAIL at MIT

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Re: Richard Stallman resigns from CSAIL at MIT

#141

Post by selfawareposter »

partialrecall wrote: post #12
smacktoward wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anyway, he probably should have know better than to weigh in. RMS is not exactly famous for his keen social skills.

It really seems like his real 'sin' is not being neurotypical. Should he try to have more tact? Sure, of course. But failing that, the correct response is compassion and gentle correction, not a witchhunt. Not driving him out of his jobs.

No. His sin was what he said. His sin was having a history of pretty disturbing comments about child porn and sex with children and animals.

Sorry but you don’t get to weasel out by saying you have poor social skills.

Re: Richard Stallman resigns from CSAIL at MIT

#142

Post by throwaway17746 »

codesushi42 wrote: post #120
frio wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really hesitant to wade into this. I think resigning was the right move for Stallman. What he actually said , without Vice editing the quote, is: We can imagine many scenarios, but the most plausible scenario is that she presented herself to him as entirely willing. Assuming she was being coerced by Epstein, he would have had every reason to tell her to conceal that from most of his associates. From the email thr…

I see no real difference. He said that. And there are even worse comments that he made in that thread.

There's a big difference. "Presented as" does not mean "was", and the sentence immediately after that makes it clear that he didn't mean it as such.

There are other pretty bad comments, yes. If most of the coverage focused on those rather than something he didn't actually say, I wouldn't have as much of a problem with it.

Re: Richard Stallman resigns from CSAIL at MIT

#144

Post by oidmortales »

accntwithnoname wrote: post #133

Good riddance. Aside from his recent comments regarding sexual assault that he claims are missunderstood, MIT alum contributed stories of him being a pervert throughout the years. This type of person does not belong at MIT or in Tech. His contributions to the field do not excuse him. “He literally used to have a mattress on the floor of his office. He kept the door to his office open, to proudly showcase that mattres…

A personal blog of a feminist activist that idolizes women to the point she believe "MIT don't deserve them" is the least reliable source of accusations. Also she's the same girl that leaked the email.

Re: Richard Stallman resigns from CSAIL at MIT

#145

Post by javagram »

cannonedhamster wrote: post #137
darawk wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The arguments Stallman presented were hardly arguments and were not novel at all. You think that Minsky being unaware of the coercion would not be a mitigating factor in accusing him of sexual assault? When was that decided?

When he was charged it was determined that despite this possible defense there was enough evidence to convict him off knowingly committing sexual assault. It's possible he'll be found not guilty in the court of law, but it's unlikely a convicted sex offender with a harem of women is above coercion and the law likely find the defendant would more likely have known than not known.

You appear to be confusing Minsky, who was dead before any of this hit the news and was never charged with any crime, and Epstein.

Re: Richard Stallman resigns from CSAIL at MIT

#146

Post by selfawareposter »

wavefunction wrote: post #116
partialrecall wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really seems like his real 'sin' is not being neurotypical. Should he try to have more tact? Sure, of course. But failing that, the correct response is compassion and gentle correction, not a witchhunt. Not driving him out of his jobs.

I downvoted you because both the neurotypical and neuro-atypical suffer from myopia, sentimentalism, favoritism, deficits of empathy, and methods for introducing and justifying moral lapses.

I’m also just sick of hearing about how old nerds just don’t know any better even when people are literally telling them to stop. That the topic is a bad idea. That they will make themselves look bad.

And it’s deeply unfair to people who have issues to simply blame gross behavior in being “neuro-atypical”.

Re: Richard Stallman resigns from CSAIL at MIT

#147

Post by partialrecall »

cannonedhamster wrote: post #128
partialrecall wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say recent statements more accurately reflect somebody's current beliefs than old statements. Considering how badly he's been recently slandered by media outlets leaving out context and mischaracterizing his remarks, I am disturbed by your willingness to exclude that context from your previous comment.

They were up on his website last I checked which was a week or two ago. I think that's considered recent.

Failure to delete old blog entries that he has nevertheless disavowed negates that disavowal? I don't agree.

Re: Richard Stallman resigns from CSAIL at MIT

#148

Post by geofft »

darawk wrote: post #126
geofft wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's weird to me that being considered a "defender of X" could even be a bad thing. That's the process by which we collectively make decisions, it's the basis behind stuff like fair trials for example; the lawyer acting for a defendant is not a bad person. Except that in fair trials we have the concept of stare decisis , that once something has been decided, it's been decided. We very intentionally do not have the…

> The arguments Stallman presented were hardly arguments and were not novel at all. You think that Minsky being unaware of the coercion would not be a mitigating factor in accusing him of sexual assault? When was that decided?

I genuinely don't think that was a novel argument to his interlocutors. I think they'd thought of that, and I think they have good counterarguments.

(I'd like to not get into arguing about Minsky's own actions or about mitigating factors in sexual assault in this particular thread. 'esotericn is talking about what is reasonable to discuss or not in which circumstances, not about the merits of the argument in question. And I'm also personally not interested in arguing the case.)

Re: Richard Stallman resigns from CSAIL at MIT

#149

Post by partialrecall »

selfawareposter wrote: post #141
partialrecall wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really seems like his real 'sin' is not being neurotypical. Should he try to have more tact? Sure, of course. But failing that, the correct response is compassion and gentle correction, not a witchhunt. Not driving him out of his jobs.

No. His sin was what he said. His sin was having a history of pretty disturbing comments about child porn and sex with children and animals. Sorry but you don’t get to weasel out by saying you have poor social skills.

If you'd ever met the man, you would know that Stallman being social oblivious with no tact or decorum is not merely some idle claim.

Re: Richard Stallman resigns from CSAIL at MIT

#150

Post by [deleted] »

ceejayoz wrote: post #30
partialrecall wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say recent statements more accurately reflect somebody's current beliefs than old statements. Considering how badly he's been recently slandered by media outlets leaving out context and mischaracterizing his remarks, I am disturbed by your willingness to exclude that context from your previous comment.

As a general rule, I tend to give more credit to consistent and freely offered opinions espoused over years than a sudden conversion immediately after a PR crisis. There's a famous saying: "When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time."

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