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Why So Many Rich People Don’t Feel Very Rich

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Re: Why So Many Rich People Don’t Feel Very Rich

#142

It's simple. Make $100K, live near people making $90K = rich. Make $100K, live near people making $110K = poor.

I believe there have been psych studies to this effect. Asked whether you'd rather make 110k when everyone else is making 80k, vs. 140k when everyone else is making 200k -- assuming prices remain constant, which is economically dubious, of course, but hey, it's a thought experiment -- and most people choose the former. Here's another study to that effect: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/3315638/Rela..…

It's more than economically dubious, it's outright false. If everyone else is making less than you, then whenever you buy anything whose cost is mostly personal service, it'll be cheap in real terms (i.e. the amount of time you have to work to buy one hour of someone else's labour).

Conversely, if other people earn more money than you, you're going to have to work longer to pay for someone else's time.

Re: Why So Many Rich People Don’t Feel Very Rich

#143
post #60
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

5. Become a high-level executive of a large or extremely profitable company. Obviously there's a small number of people for whom this will happen but I'm pretty sure most corporate execs make >$200k

As far as I can see, the best ways to become this is are: (a) be an early employee of a company that grows large enough; (b) get your own company acquired (a subset of case 1); (c) meet the right people early on, especially at a young age; and (d) act entrepreneurially within an existing organization's management, which, depending on the health of the organization, may entail more political talent than productive tal…

That list might be how people assume it happens, but it doesn't reflect reality.

Most early employees never make it anywhere near management if they weren't management employees to begin with (and with venture-funded companies, those usually get replaced; Steve Blank wrote about this I think). Ditto for getting your company acquired (how many acquired YC alumni ended up quitting right after acquisition? something like 99%?). Meeting the right people also doesn't have as much to do with it as you'd suspect - a lot of CxOs are found through searches, and may come from companies in a completely different sector of the economy. As for entrepreneurial drive, that's the reason we're all here reading HN instead of being content with working for an "entrepreneurial" manager.

I recommend reading Sharon Voros' The Road to CEO - it describes the typical public company's executive officers' background pretty well. The basic idea is you have to work your way up the management chain of command and build up a solid resume (spending time at a prominent business consulting shop apparently can act as a short-cut for this). Personal qualities related to making good first impressions seem really important at the high level - the author spends a couple of chapters on things related to grooming and appearance. I don't run in CxO circles, but that seems an accurate impression from the senior management people I've encountered.

Bottom line seems to be you need to get into management and work and charm your way up.

Re: Why So Many Rich People Don’t Feel Very Rich

#144

It must be tough to have a smaller yacht than your friends.

$172,000 per year is not a yacht level income. It's a good salary (some might say great), but you're not going to have a mansion and a yacht.

That depends on what you mean by "mansion" and "yacht." Outside of NYC and the Bay Area you can definitely afford a mortgage on a nice house, two good cars, and a decent-sized sailboat and manage to feed a family of four on that income (assuming you don't send the kids to private school).

Re: Why So Many Rich People Don’t Feel Very Rich

#145
This topic always brings me back to the same place: As a culture, when it comes to the "rich" and the "wealthy" we tend to focus almost exclusively on revenue (income) and assets (stuff). Anyone who looks at a simple income statement and balance sheet knows that there is a lot more to the equation.

If someone makes $500k and spends $500k, not only is their net income $0, they have added nothing to their net worth. Conversely, someone who makes $75k and spends $30k has a positive net income of $45k and adds $45k to their net worth. However, because we don't have nearly as much insight into the income statements and balance sheets of our neighbor, we compare our "income" and "stuff" to their "income" and "stuff" (as opposed to what we really should be comparing which is net income and net worth).

I'm also reminded of a great book by P.T. Barnum called The Art of Money Getting (http://manybooks.net/titles/barnumptetext05barnm10.html). It was published in 1880, but it's amazing how relevant it still is. He tells some great stories about life, money, and wealth. This is one of my favorites:

"I know a gentleman of fortune who says, that when he first began to prosper, his wife would have a new and elegant sofa. "That sofa," he says, "cost me thirty thousand dollars!" When the sofa reached the house, it was found necessary to get chairs to match; then side-boards, carpets and tables "to correspond" with them, and so on through the entire stock of furniture.

When at last it was found that the house itself was quite too small and old-fashioned for the furniture, and a new one was built to correspond with the new purchases; "thus," added my friend, "summing up an outlay of thirty thousand dollars, caused by that single sofa, and saddling on me, in the shape of servants, equipage, and the necessary expenses attendant upon keeping up a fine ’establishment,’ a yearly outlay of eleven thousand dollars, and a tight pinch at that: whereas, ten years ago, we lived with much more real comfort, because with much less care, on as many hundreds.

The truth is," he continued, "that sofa would have brought me to inevitable bankruptcy, had not a most unexampled title to prosperity kept me above it, and had I not checked the natural desire to ’cut a dash’."

Re: Why So Many Rich People Don’t Feel Very Rich

#146
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. It's all relative. Happiness = Success / Expectations

Success - Expectations, usually. Success / Expectations would imply that if you have negative expectations and positive success, you'd still have negative happiness, which doesn't seem true.

Actually, if you have such negative expectations, you might be pessimistic enough that even success wouldn't make you happy.

But for other people, yeah, things coming out that much better than expected would be a good thing.

Re: Why So Many Rich People Don’t Feel Very Rich

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I think that was $342K/year for 99.5th percentile of single filers - you need to take on some risk" I don't think this is true - all the traditional "low risk" professions have this ability: doctors, dentists, lawyers, investment bankers and fund managers. $300k+ is not unusual for a mid-level person in these industries. Senior people in these industries will hit $1m+ pretty easily without having taken on any signif…

Do you think mid-level doctors, lawyers, bankers don't take risks on their job?

Yes, in the financial context they have a low risk profession. They can have greater than 90% confidence that if they do the same thing they did the previous year (likely, working very hard at a task they are very skilled in), that they will earn about the same amount they earned that year, usually adjusted up for inflation. Do you disagree, or are you using some other definition of risk?

Re: Why So Many Rich People Don’t Feel Very Rich

#148
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I can see, the best ways to become this is are: (a) be an early employee of a company that grows large enough; (b) get your own company acquired (a subset of case 1); (c) meet the right people early on, especially at a young age; and (d) act entrepreneurially within an existing organization's management, which, depending on the health of the organization, may entail more political talent than productive tal…

That list might be how people assume it happens, but it doesn't reflect reality. Most early employees never make it anywhere near management if they weren't management employees to begin with (and with venture-funded companies, those usually get replaced; Steve Blank wrote about this I think). Ditto for getting your company acquired (how many acquired YC alumni ended up quitting right after acquisition? something lik…

It's true that my impressions are based on all I've known about the backgrounds of execs I've been impressed with, rather than a proper survey / random sampling. Perhaps the 80% come from more mundane middle management backgrounds; I don't have enough data to tell.

Re: Why So Many Rich People Don’t Feel Very Rich

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I think that was $342K/year for 99.5th percentile of single filers - you need to take on some risk" I don't think this is true - all the traditional "low risk" professions have this ability: doctors, dentists, lawyers, investment bankers and fund managers. $300k+ is not unusual for a mid-level person in these industries. Senior people in these industries will hit $1m+ pretty easily without having taken on any signif…

Do you think mid-level doctors, lawyers, bankers don't take risks on their job?

Personal risk, yes. Malpractice is covered by insurance. Bankers risk their clients' money, not their own (for the most part). As long as they perform their job competently, there is little risk compared to an entrepreneur who has had to quit their job and invest their personal funds into their venture.

Re: Why So Many Rich People Don’t Feel Very Rich

#150
post #44

I think you are only really "rich" when you are making a decent (e.g. middle/upper middle-class) monthly salary without even (theoretically) setting a foot out of bed, ever. Given the complete freedom to do a lot of things in your life without ever HAVING to participate in the rat race of daily work has got to be the ultimate freedom and should be the bar for "rich" for me. Everyone below that is more or less well of…

You are confusing 'rich' with 'idle rich'.

No, it's not that you do do that, it's that you have the option.
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