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CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

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Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#141

Post by teknopaul »

Reelin wrote: post #126
jdietrich wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have time to thoroughly examine your references right now, but I can tell you off the bat that the third study is very poor - they measured vapor samples at 500°F and 600°F, which is substantially in excess of normal vaping temperatures and would almost certainly produce an acrid, foul-tasting vapor. The presence of CO in the vapor samples clearly indicates oxidation rather than vaporisation. Of course you ge…

I think what's going on there is that one of the e-cigs they used had a configurable temperature (200-600 °F). I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that they selected a reasonable one (they don't appear to specify in the methods). Separately, there's the GC-MS machine - oven (30 - 220 °C ramp) and inlet (320 °C). This shouldn't be (much of) an issue though, as an inert carrier gas is used. Plus you alwa…

Recreational cigarette smoking? I've never met such a creature. Your either hooked or your not.

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#142

Post by ajsnigrutin »

userbinator wrote: post #133
testis321 wrote: post #82

Vaping is great! Take someone who smokes two packs a day, give him a niccotine vape, and he gets all the 'high' he needs to fuel his addiciton, with (by some sources) only 10% of the "bad things" going in his lungs (compared to cigarettes). Less coughing, easier to reduce the dosage (just buy a liquid with less nicotine - you still keep your rutine and cigarette breaks, but slowly lower your addiction level). ...but.…

but the ones with very high power heating elements, producing HUGE amounts of smoke (for the youtube likes), and making the "bad stuff" intake into lungs comparable to actually smoking 2+ packs of cigarettes I don't think those "cloud chasers" actually vape nicotine.

As it seems, it's not the nicotine that is the problem in these cases here.

And nicotine is not a thing that kills your lungs (except making you addicted), it's the "other things", and those are also in non-niccotine vapes (and different ones in classic cigarettes).

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#143

Post by soulofmischief »

qzx_pierri wrote: post #132

Something about all the sudden bans in flavored, (enjoyable) vapes, mixed with the fear mongering all over the news makes me feel like this is all FUD being pushed by the tobacco industry. I mean, consider what’s happening. “Why vape if it’s flavorless and tasteless? At that point, I might as well stick to my Marlboro Reds, at least they have some established flavor” - I’m just playing devils advocate. And about the…

> It’s those “HUGE CLOUD XD” people who are taking ridiculous sized rips, and black market THC vape carts. Juuls aren’t perfect, but their popularity and the losses to the tobacco industry’s profits make me wonder....

From what I understand, the issue is almost purely surrounding THC carts because of the lipids many producers use to increase the THC's solubility. People who make those big clouds are using high concentrations of vegetable glycerin which has not yet been shown to contribute to this illness and has several decades of established prior use. It helps to be less judgemental about others' lifestyles and stick to the facts.

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#144

Post by snarfy »

> One trend worth noting, however, is that very few of the cases involve only nicotine products; most of the afflicted users reported using THC exclusively or as well as nicotine

If victims used "THC exclusively", why are nicotine vapes being targeted? Were there any victims that used nicotine vapes exclusively?

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#145

Post by urbanjunkie »

johngrefe wrote: post #33

I had a startup in Vaping(nicotine) and am still fairly in touch with the industry. There has been no major innovation in nicotine eliquid that would cause a sudden cluster of issues. It's stayed pretty constant since 2013 with the exception of Salt Nicotine, which Pax labs has a gras study published for. The majority of cases seems to be THC carts where it can be confirmed. One case was confirmed from a dispensary i…

LMFAO

You: "I work in the vaping industry and i urge everyone to ignore the CDC's advice until I've exited"

HN: "sounds reasonable, a millennial engineer must know more than the CDC. Have some upvotes"

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#146

Post by slovenlyrobot »

tom_mellior wrote: post #119
wp381640 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are you sure vaping is actually reducing potential harm? Yep. I quit smoking via 3 years of vaping and tapering down on nicotine. I've referred and seen no less than a half-dozen people I know do the same - some of the hardest smokers i've known (including my own fathers 40 year+ pack a day habit) If anybody asks i'll always turn people onto vaping - even if they don't ask i'll push them towards it, nothing has got…

Congratulations on quitting! Do you feel you could explain the difference vaping made for tapering down, as opposed to trying to smoke fewer and fewer cigarettes?

I'm someone who used to crack up if he hadn't had a cigarette in 3 hours. Replacing cigarette with vape isn't some natural effort, but it is far from hard to do either. The nervous compulsion to have a cigarette is satisfied by a vape, after which, for reasons I simply do not understand, it becomes easier and easier to just not pick up the vape over time.

I don't know at what point it happened, but I can easily go a full day and 'forget to' vape. Smoking was never like that

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#147

Post by Reelin »

Retric wrote: post #127
Reelin wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> > The other is almost entirely a mixture of Propylene Glycol and Vegetable Glycerin. > What an extraordinary meaningless statement. Not at all. The point being made is that we're dealing with a product composed primarily (99%) of two chemicals that are very clearly established as safe for human consumption (propylene glycol is commonly _injected_). As such, it seems unreasonable to assume absent evidence that the c…

Fog machines also use a glycol solution, and have been shown to be harmful. Thus vaping glycol may not be safe. https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/hhe/reports/pdfs/1990-0355-2449.pd...

The report you linked shows quite the opposite, actually. They concluded:

> Based on the results of this study, there is no evidence that theatrical "smoke," at the levels found in the theaters studied, is a cause of occupational asthma among performers.

That being said, chronic exposure is probably not good for you. From a health perspective, don't inhale anything other than air!

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#148

Post by pavelludiq »

DanBC wrote: post #104
atlasunshrugged wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any solid RCTs or meta analysis you could point me to about how much better they are than cigarettes? Agreed, there's a lot of FUD, but a lot of it is coming from sources that give me a lot of hesitation to doubt (lots of public health leaders, tobacco control groups, WHO people) I understand alcohol or weed is more harmful than vaping, I'm personally just interested in cigarettes as that seems to be the…

> Agreed, there's a lot of FUD, but a lot of it is coming from sources that give me a lot of hesitation to doubt (lots of public health leaders, tobacco control groups, WHO people) None of these sources are saying that vaping is comparable to smoking in terms of harms caused. They're saying that some harm is caused, and that we don't know what harms are caused, and so the precautionary principle means we should make…

> we should make sure that non-smokers do not take up vaping

How about we let adults do as they please instead.

The most anybody should ever do about vaping is warn people that maybe it's not the safest thing in the world.

Instead in the EU we have a ridiculous law that makes it illegal to sell nicotine liquid in container bigger than 10ml, which means that if I don't want to spend twice what I used on cigarettes, I have to buy non-nicotine 100ml bottles of liquid and then buy separate 10ml bottles of nicotine concentrate and mix them myself, doing the math myself to get the proportion I used to be able to just order and generating a small pile of empty small plastic bottles every month because people who can't sleep at night unless somebody does something about everything!!!OHGODSTHECHILBREN!!! keep coming up with stupid ideas like that.

Please we should not be making sure of anything! We don't need to be sure that every body is absolutely safe all the time, put a warning label and let us do as we wish with our health.

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#149

Post by Reelin »

zaphar wrote: post #139
Reelin wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> > The other is almost entirely a mixture of Propylene Glycol and Vegetable Glycerin. > What an extraordinary meaningless statement. Not at all. The point being made is that we're dealing with a product composed primarily (99%) of two chemicals that are very clearly established as safe for human consumption (propylene glycol is commonly _injected_). As such, it seems unreasonable to assume absent evidence that the c…

The ingredients you list are safe for human ingestion. It doesn't follow that they are safe for inhalation. Your point that they are likely safer than cigarettes is well taken, but your insistence on the ingredients being known to be safe to inhale is faulty.

> your insistence on the ingredients being known to be safe to inhale is faulty

Please reread my comment - I never claimed that. I very explicitly stated that inhalation of anything is likely to be bad for your health.

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#150

Post by GonzaloQuero »

apexalpha wrote: post #101
slau wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except for the fact that other ways don’t work. It’s not possible to slowly reduce your nicotine intake with cigarettes. The only alternative is: stop all your smoking habits, and maybe one of these nicotine substitutes will help. But that only adresses one part of the issue: the nicotine addiction. Smoking is a lot more complex than just the nicotine addiction. I know a lot of smokers who managed to take a break fro…

>It’s not possible to slowly reduce your nicotine intake with cigarettes. The only alternative is: stop all your smoking habits, and maybe one of these nicotine substitutes will help. Why not? Just go from 2 packs a day to 1.9, to 1.8 etc..

That tapers the physical addiction part of it, but worsens the psychological part of the addiction, because now that you're having less, you're craving each cigarette more, and start valuing those you allow yourself to have even more. In the end, by doing this, you're suffering continuous withdrawal while worsening your psychological addiction.
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