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Obama administration moves forward with unique Internet ID for all Americans

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Re: Obama administration moves forward with unique Internet ID for all Americans

#141

Post by anamax »

RickRoll wrote: post #107
anamax wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How about because ppl prefer religion over science. And security over freedom. Federal government getting more corrupt and more powerful with each year. When do you think that each of those became true? Or is it that they've finally crossed a tipping point? I agree that they're all true, but they've been true since before 1776. And, as bad as the US is on an absolute scale, I'm having trouble finding some place bet…

http://ngrams.googlelabs.com/graph?content=Science,science,R... http://ngrams.googlelabs.com/graph?content=Freedom,+freedom,... In the 50s, 60s, 70s children have dreamed of becoming astronauts, programmers, engineers, scientists. But nowadays the cool jobs are in sports, TV, finance. I'd bet around 1776 the majority of ppl in the colonies were willing to take care of themselves. Today the power of federal government…

> In the 50s, 60s, 70s children have dreamed of becoming astronauts, programmers, engineers, scientists. But nowadays the cool jobs are in sports, TV, finance.

More dreamed of becoming cowboys, police, and firemen.

Also, kids during the 50s dreamed of becoming professional athletes. The only that has changed in that respect is which sports.

In any event, that doesn't have anything to do with "How about because ppl prefer religion over science. And security over freedom. Federal government getting more corrupt and more powerful with each year."

Re: Obama administration moves forward with unique Internet ID for all Americans

#142

Post by dennisgorelik »

sorbus wrote: post #139
brown9-2 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does the national government issuing identification cards lead to totalitarianism?

Well, if you have a national ID, it's a lot easier to require ID when taking public transit (especially if they have RFID tags: "wave your ID to activate the ticket kiosk!"). That is certainly a step towards, while not necessarily totalitarianism, the sort of police state which I doubt that anyone would want to live in. The problem isn't that national IDs will cause totalitarianism; they won't. The problem is that th…

People dislike government monitoring them exactly because it's a step toward totalitarianism.

Nothing prevents public transit to allow people pay with their credit cards or even with driver's licenses. I'm pretty sure that if government works on such payment system -- it would be much more expensive and buggy than best private alternatives.

Besides, government has other things to focus on, such as pulling military out from Iraq and paying out huge government debt. It's not government business to mess with payment system and/or National ID.

Re: Obama administration moves forward with unique Internet ID for all Americans

#143

Post by Evgeny »

davidcuddeback wrote: post #69
jacoblyles wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn't they bully the ISPs to force everybody to use it? Seems like we should worry when they set up the groundwork for something like that, and not after the fact.

I don't see how this would be implemented at the ISP level, but maybe that's a failure of my imagination. I'm imagining something similar to Open ID. With no details about the government's plan for an internet ID, we're left to our imaginations, which probably vary widely from person to person.

I don't see how this would be implemented at the ISP level

Simple: all new contracts with any ISP will require the customer to provide the internet ID.

All existing contracts have to be renewed no later than {date}, and if the customer fails to provide the internet ID by that date, he is forcefully disconnected.

Re: Obama administration moves forward with unique Internet ID for all Americans

#144

Post by brc »

Alex3917 wrote: post #10
flyt wrote: post #2

The silver lining is that by the time this project goes through study after study, development, testing, and finally deployment 5-10 years will have passed and the Internet will fundamentally change in ways that either makes this instantly irrelevant or impossible to enforce.

We need a publicly-controlled identity infrastructure that's compatible with the Internet. The problem isn't that internet ID is somehow evil, but rather the government.

No we don't. Currently messy systems ensure that caveat emptor is alive and well. Buying, selling and all the other activities on the internet may be easier to implement from a computer point of view with a centralised ID, but it's a very good thing that people employ caution in online activities.

You cannot eliminate fraud, deceit and risk. You cannot create a utopia. These things are impossible, and all the best intentions in the world usually have bad unforeseen outcomes. Natural growth of systems is the best way forwards. A company like PayPal tries verification by depositing small amounts, it works, the consumers don't mind, so it stays. Another company tries something else, consumers don't like it, it goes. At no point is a central committee involved. This is the way it should be.

Re: Obama administration moves forward with unique Internet ID for all Americans

#145

Post by zzeroparticle »

postingfromwork wrote: post #92
jrockway wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The USA is in rapid decline? Let me guess, because teenagers use Facebook, spell "you" as "u" and house prices are not increasing as quickly as 5 years ago?

You're on the right track, actually. Academic motivation is virtually nonexistent in the States, whereas in China kids go to school on Saturdays and go to private cram schools until nighttime. A nation is made or broken by its education systems since after all, knowledge is power.

That's not necessarily a bad thing. I've always been rather fond of pg's quote which says something to the effect that "if I had to choose between bad high schools and good universities, like the US, and good high schools and bad universities, like most other industrialized countries, I'd take the US system. Better to make everyone feel like a late bloomer than a failed child prodigy."

Re: Obama administration moves forward with unique Internet ID for all Americans

#146

Post by ghshephard »

BlazingFrog wrote: post #134
motters wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing about schemes like this is that they remain optional until such time as the majority of the population have them, after which it becomes easy to convert the system to a mandatory one since minority groups can easily be sidelined. Or alternatively they become so popular that it becomes difficult to function as a modern citizen without one (I hope this doesn't apply with Facebook accounts in the next few year…

Spot on. When I relocated to the US from Europe, it was impossible for me to open a bank account, rent an apartment or get a cell phone without an SSN. When I explained that to people at the SS administration, they told me that an SSN can never be a requirement to obtain any kind of service. In reality, it's simply not true.

Under no circumstances, outside of tax purposes (employment, banking, etc...) can you legally be required to provide an SSN in the united states. Any time I've been "required", I've put up a fuss, and eventually been granted equivalent avenues to provide assurance of payment or reference checks. In most cases this involves a three to four month deposit on the service. Annoying, but given that the organization is entering a commercial relationship with me without knowledge of my credit worthiness, bearable.

I detest these centralized government tracking systems on my activity, and hope that this next attempt on a national ID is quickly defeated.

Re: Obama administration moves forward with unique Internet ID for all Americans

#147

Post by j_baker »

sidek wrote: post #99
j_baker wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This could be useful for allowing various levels of government to provide more services online. For instance, I wouldn't have to provide my social security number to a third party if I wanted to pay my taxes online. Or better yet, maybe they could allow voting online like Estonia does. Imagine what that would do for voter turnout.

"CLICK HERE TO VOTE FOR CANDIDATE A AND GET A NEW TYPE OF FARMVILLE CROP"

Fine. But you're missing my point. My point is that this would be useful for providing government services online. If you feel that online voting is a bad example then so be it.

Re: Obama administration moves forward with unique Internet ID for all Americans

#148

Post by narrator »

lionhearted wrote: post #100

Profile: Sebastian Marshall. Internet ID 353-808-A331. Known aliases: "lionhearted". Primary contact info: sebastian@sebastianmarshall.com Political positions: A believer in liberty, pro-international travel and open borders, tends towards mild hostility towards regulation. Generally law-abiding. Friendliness to American Interests Rating (FAIR): 72/100

That 353-808-A331 is the lower 64 bits of your ipv6 address anytime you do anything online. You won't have to login anywhere! If you need to do something important you'll just sign with your private key and the gov will graciously provide the public key keyserver. I've been trying to tell that to everybody for years.

Your Fair Score is actually your TerrorScore. Would you like to sort social media profiles by TerrorScore? They will undoubtedly use Google PageRank like Eigenvectors to calculate it based on who you're linked to and your ipv6 traffic profile.

I hate to be an Ipv6 cynic but after all, Ipv4 NAT is the best thing that ever happened to online anonymity.

Re: Obama administration moves forward with unique Internet ID for all Americans

#149

Post by eml »

anamax wrote: post #90
RickRoll wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about because ppl prefer religion over science. And security over freedom. Federal government getting more corrupt and more powerful with each year.

> How about because ppl prefer religion over science. And security over freedom. Federal government getting more corrupt and more powerful with each year. When do you think that each of those became true? Or is it that they've finally crossed a tipping point? I agree that they're all true, but they've been true since before 1776. And, as bad as the US is on an absolute scale, I'm having trouble finding some place bet…

Hong Kong, or Switzerland.

Re: Obama administration moves forward with unique Internet ID for all Americans

#150

Post by SapphireSun »

nkassis wrote: post #125
abrahamsen wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, Denmark: https://www.nemid.nu/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NemID Most public institutions as well as many private (including the banks) have switched to this system. Our government already know just about everything about us (e.g. few people need to fill out tax forms), so this has not been very controversial. The largest controversy has been with the security.

"(e.g. few people need to fill out tax forms)" Actually I don't get why the gov makes people do one in the US and Canada. Most people have their income reported to the gov by their employer. That information should be downloadable by people and then what is missing could be filled in, mistakes fixed, deductions not already calculated added...

The government would like to know about other things you are doing on the side as well. :-)
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