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Facial recognition: School ID checks lead to GDPR fine

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Re: Facial recognition: School ID checks lead to GDPR fine

#141

Post by balfirevic »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #139
balfirevic wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you misunderstand what the logic here is. Parents should be able to consent to some things in the name of their children and absolutely should not be able to do it for other things (even those things their children would be able to consent to were they grown ups, so I don't mean illegal things). Exactly what stuff the parents can consent to is the real question and should be argued properly and not treated as any…

I perfectly understand the logic. Data processing is ubiquitous these days and control and consent falls well within what parents are there for. That is common sense: parents are there to make decisions on behalf of their children on issues children cannot handle.

> That is common sense.

Well (as you said - and thankfully) not any more.

Re: Facial recognition: School ID checks lead to GDPR fine

#142

Post by mytailorisrich »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #138
mytailorisrich wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue with the GDPR as worded and this ruling is that they remove the possibility of informed individual decisions. In this case it seems that all involved were informed and OK with it but that did not matter. I would also think that knowing where pupils are at all times is quite a legitimate aim for a school.

>knowing where pupils are at all times is quite a legitimate aim for a school // Does continual surveillance improve educational outcomes such as life-fulfillment and academic achievement? Why is it a legitimate _aim_ for a school?

I'm sure you know that schools have an extensive duty of care over the minors they have on their premises.

Re: Facial recognition: School ID checks lead to GDPR fine

#143

Post by [deleted] »

Gwypaas wrote: post #133
Iv wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

School is the most authoritarian experience one typically experiences in a democracy. Here is a place where a strict hierarchy is enforced, through means of parental and peer pressure, anxiety over your future. Your schedule is planned by the minute, even peeing requires an authorization. Chatting is banned except on very limited time spans. The fact that we have kept a part of middle-age inside our modern societies…

What you're describing is the American school system. As a Swede who spent an exchange year in an affluent Dallas suburb the systems couldn't be more different. Going from Swedish to American high school felt like stepping back to elementary school in regards to personal freedom and trust. First to set the base, in general in Sweden you have all your classes with the same 25-30 instead of different groups every perio…

[deleted]

Re: Facial recognition: School ID checks lead to GDPR fine

#144

Post by mytailorisrich »

balfirevic wrote: post #141
mytailorisrich wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I perfectly understand the logic. Data processing is ubiquitous these days and control and consent falls well within what parents are there for. That is common sense: parents are there to make decisions on behalf of their children on issues children cannot handle.

> That is common sense. Well (as you said - and thankfully) not any more.

The law will hopefully be changed because it isn't neither workable nor sensible if parents cannot consent on behalf of their children.

Re: Facial recognition: School ID checks lead to GDPR fine

#145

Post by cameronbrown »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #130
TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm, when can parents consent on behalf of children? Can children retract the consent given for them by their parents?

Recently I traveled through UK airport security with minors and was surprised that the staff did not seek approval from a legal guardian for a body search (pat-down) of a minor. I try to refer questions of consent to my kids, but in this case the question wasn't asked, they just said "hold your hands out" and went ahead. I don't think minors can retract parental consent, but IMO schools should accommodate an individu…

Really hope your quote at the end there was just some twisted humour. That's disturbing.

Re: Facial recognition: School ID checks lead to GDPR fine

#146

Post by alwayslearning0 »

Zenst wrote: post #119
Iv wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

School is the most authoritarian experience one typically experiences in a democracy. Here is a place where a strict hierarchy is enforced, through means of parental and peer pressure, anxiety over your future. Your schedule is planned by the minute, even peeing requires an authorization. Chatting is banned except on very limited time spans. The fact that we have kept a part of middle-age inside our modern societies…

I can think of a few HR departments over time, that would make the worst school experience look like a walk in the park. Let's be fair, I never got a written warning for slouching in a chair at school...

A written warning for slouching in your chair? Quit your job holy shit

Re: Facial recognition: School ID checks lead to GDPR fine

#147

Post by Iv »

Gwypaas wrote: post #133
Iv wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

School is the most authoritarian experience one typically experiences in a democracy. Here is a place where a strict hierarchy is enforced, through means of parental and peer pressure, anxiety over your future. Your schedule is planned by the minute, even peeing requires an authorization. Chatting is banned except on very limited time spans. The fact that we have kept a part of middle-age inside our modern societies…

What you're describing is the American school system. As a Swede who spent an exchange year in an affluent Dallas suburb the systems couldn't be more different. Going from Swedish to American high school felt like stepping back to elementary school in regards to personal freedom and trust. First to set the base, in general in Sweden you have all your classes with the same 25-30 instead of different groups every perio…

I had not realized this story was in Sweden.

I am French, I live in Japan. My criticism applies to these two countries as well. Within European progressives, Scandinavian countries are seen as having a really different educative system and we are wondering what we are waiting before stealing it!

On the topic at hand, I am sure it is very convenient. That's the problem: maintaining privacy is a bit less convenient, but it is important, which is why it is good government do not allow people to trade short-term convenience for longer term privacy erosion.

Re: Facial recognition: School ID checks lead to GDPR fine

#148

Post by Iv »

Zenst wrote: post #119
Iv wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

School is the most authoritarian experience one typically experiences in a democracy. Here is a place where a strict hierarchy is enforced, through means of parental and peer pressure, anxiety over your future. Your schedule is planned by the minute, even peeing requires an authorization. Chatting is banned except on very limited time spans. The fact that we have kept a part of middle-age inside our modern societies…

I can think of a few HR departments over time, that would make the worst school experience look like a walk in the park. Let's be fair, I never got a written warning for slouching in a chair at school...

But you are allowed to leave a job.

Re: Facial recognition: School ID checks lead to GDPR fine

#149

Post by lowercased »

m0xte wrote: post #110
noir_lord wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was 9 I had an absolutely awful teacher (to the extent she'd refuse kids using the bathroom to the point where they'd pee themselves (it was the 80's)), I told my mum about it and her response was "If you need to go ask, if she says no, go anyway and I'll deal with the fallout". It was my first lesson in dealing with unjust authority and that most authority relies on the principle that most people under it wil…

I was one of the kids who peed himself in class due to one of those teachers. I had asked three times to go. Ripe age of of 12 no less. It destroyed my fear of and respect for arbitrary authority instantly so I look back on it as a good thing today. I realised that rather than my peers turning on me on a shame basis they turned on the teacher because it was going to be them next. It also positioned me well for dealin…

happened to me at age 7(?) - I remember the grade and room, just not the date.

it was one of those things that chipped away at my respect for authority - it didn't destroy it, but still dinged it. Peers still turned on me - no one thought "it could be me next". We were 7/8(?) - I'm not sure most people could reason that far ahead vs living in the moment.

What sticks with me is that we had an announcement earlier (few days or weeks earlier?) that no bathroom breaks would be given out because a few kids had 'abused the privilege' (stayed out of the room longer than they should have). So... someone else violates a trivially stupid 'rule', and my own life is negatively impacted, which is wholly unjust. That was my takeaway, which has stuck with me for ~40 years. I still remember a couple of the kids who'd been 'abusing' that privilege beforehand, and remember what impact they and that teacher had on me that day and beyond.

Re: Facial recognition: School ID checks lead to GDPR fine

#150

Post by JoeAltmaier »

Iv wrote: post #73
Barrin92 wrote: post #11

Good. Not only does this ensure that the students enjoy privacy, monitoring children in school with surveillance systems could have come straight out of foucault's discipline and punish. Maybe we should think about how we make schools spaces of freedom for our children rather than turning them into the next panopticon.

School is the most authoritarian experience one typically experiences in a democracy. Here is a place where a strict hierarchy is enforced, through means of parental and peer pressure, anxiety over your future. Your schedule is planned by the minute, even peeing requires an authorization. Chatting is banned except on very limited time spans. The fact that we have kept a part of middle-age inside our modern societies…

Not my school experience at all, growing up in Iowa City schools. No authorizations; chatting was done between classes everywhere (but not during class because that would be rude). Wandered the halls as needed; was in and out of High School to suit my schedule (open campus); chose my own classes every year.
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