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The electric car as a talisman of false hope

jussipasanen.com

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Re: The electric car as a talisman of false hope

#141

Post by acidburnNSA »

amluto wrote: post #130
kaibee wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree that technically, fusion is not renewable, I feel like it might as well be? Working fusion reactors make it economical to siphon hydrogen fuel from Jupiter and such. Did you mean fission?

I prefer “sustainable”, as in “this technology can be used as some scale for X years without causing major problems”. High-burnup nuclear power, under reasonable assumptions, is sustainable for hundreds of thousands of years. Fusion is presumably sustainable as long as the Earth exists, as are solar and wind. Coal is not sustainable at all.

Right on. Breeder fission reactors can power civilization for at least tens of millions of years, probably billions, thanks to seawater uranium extraction and renewal through plate tectonics.

Re: The electric car as a talisman of false hope

#142

Post by addicted »

theworld572 wrote: post #124
Barrin92 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't make a real difference, and the author is correct about it. If you drive towards a wall and you're accelerating and all you're doing is slowing the rate of acceleration you're still going to run into the wall at terminal velocity. The author correctly points out that the total increase in car usage, mostly conventional engines is going to offset the small dent that electric cars make, and that cars themsel…

So whats the alternative? Do nothing at all? If you have $100k left to pay on your mortgage, and somebody offers you $5k towards the mortgage are you going to tell them they're offering you a "false hope because you'd still have $95k left to pay"? EDIT: This is also known as the "nirvana fallacy": because the solution is not perfect - that means it is worthless. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy

That’s not what the original author of the article is claiming from how I read it.

He’s claiming that sure, take the 5k, but don’t let that fool you into believing you’re done. You still have to plan on finding the other 95k.

Re: The electric car as a talisman of false hope

#143

Post by WhompingWindows »

charlesism wrote: post #10

Alot about our system of roads and cars strikes me as crazy. Most of the vehicles on the road have only one person in them, yet weigh as much as an elephant. Nobody drives under the speed limit, which is typically fast enough to result in hundreds of thousands of fatalities every year anyways. Every neighborhood designed primarily for these idiotically heavy vehicles, that occasionally drive over pets and children wh…

Mr. Money Mustache is a financial blogger, he emphasizes minimal living and reducing environmental footprint. He calls cars 2 ton wheelchairs and advocates MUCH more bicycle use. I have to say I agree, we need to cure our ridiculous car habits, especially 1) buying ridiculously huge vehicles with terrible MPG; 2) taking short trips everywhere in the car, when walking or biking would do.

https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/04/22/curing-your-clown...

Re: The electric car as a talisman of false hope

#144

Post by srfilipek »

whenchamenia wrote: post #133
srfilipek wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla's brake pads for the Model 3 are scheduled for replacement after 250,000 miles of use (according to tesla rep. I spoke to). No, I did not mistype that.

Just checked mine on my honda with 200,000 miles. Fronts were a bit low, so I replaced them, rears were still about at half wear. Tesla is no magic beast in this reguard. The secret is a manual transmission.

If I drove my manual better, I could probably achieve that, but spirited driving made me replace everything twice over in 100k miles, with a third needed soon. :(

Re: The electric car as a talisman of false hope

#145

Post by growlist »

sokoloff wrote: post #119
growlist wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Removal of the ICE in favour of electric I meant, in case I wasn't clear. Massive amounts of power etc. are required to produce the chassis, bodywork etc. - it makes sense to get a lifetime's use out of them rather than throw away the whole thing just because the ICE has gone out of fashion.

Ok. The transmission is a very specific (and overly specific for your intended meaning) assembly, so it was indeed not clear.

I apologise :)

Re: The electric car as a talisman of false hope

#146

Post by academic_nimrod »

Barrin92 wrote: post #132
theworld572 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So whats the alternative? Do nothing at all? If you have $100k left to pay on your mortgage, and somebody offers you $5k towards the mortgage are you going to tell them they're offering you a "false hope because you'd still have $95k left to pay"? EDIT: This is also known as the "nirvana fallacy": because the solution is not perfect - that means it is worthless. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy

No, the alternative is to figure out how to change the very fundamental levers of the system in a way that enables change on a scale that matters. The individual consumption lens is going to accomplish nothing. If you could move an entire country from being car dependent to being largely car free, by pushing rapid urbanisation and transit and you put 20 car drivers onto a train or a bus, then we're starting to talk a…

>the alternative is to figure out how to change the very fundamental levers of the system

You can already do this. It's called voting, but unfortunately the majority of people don't want the government dictating to them every aspect of their lives (what they eat, drive, or where they live).

>If you could move an entire country from being car dependent to being largely car free, by pushing rapid urbanisation and transit and you put 20 car drivers onto a train or a bus, then we're starting to talk about measures that actually have some effect.

Are you advocating forced relocating? Should people just sell their homes? What if you don't like living in big cities?

>it's the modern version of paying the catholic church for absolution.

And your climate doomsday fearmongering is the modern version of Catholic eschatology.

Re: The electric car as a talisman of false hope

#147

Post by travisporter »

Barrin92 wrote: post #132
theworld572 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So whats the alternative? Do nothing at all? If you have $100k left to pay on your mortgage, and somebody offers you $5k towards the mortgage are you going to tell them they're offering you a "false hope because you'd still have $95k left to pay"? EDIT: This is also known as the "nirvana fallacy": because the solution is not perfect - that means it is worthless. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy

No, the alternative is to figure out how to change the very fundamental levers of the system in a way that enables change on a scale that matters. The individual consumption lens is going to accomplish nothing. If you could move an entire country from being car dependent to being largely car free, by pushing rapid urbanisation and transit and you put 20 car drivers onto a train or a bus, then we're starting to talk a…

First, A lot of people buy Teslas because of looks and performance, or a linen bag because of ocean pollution. It may not reflect a desire to address climate change.

Second, we can do both moonshots and paper straws. Why not encourage people finally pulling their head out of the sand?

Re: The electric car as a talisman of false hope

#148

Post by agumonkey »

srfilipek wrote: post #109
agumonkey wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The worst part about it IMO is traffic light and stops. In a city, if you can drive around 20mph (25 maybe) uninterrupted, you get in most places very fast, very pleasantly and with fuel savings since you never slow down. Instead of a smooth flow, you get drivers that do: - high accelerations - nervous braking - idle engine running between 30 - 60 seconds (120 max?) Pure waste. Maybe I'm asking for a problem too comp…

> high accelerations Acceleration does not waste energy (other than speed related things like wind resistance). This is a myth that is perpetuated without merit, but probably because it's typically associated with overall aggressive driving, which implies bad braking habits. Max efficiency is typically near peak torque for internal combustion engines [0]. For EV's, electric motors are actually most efficient at highe…

true, but I'd bet a 100$ that people accelerating too fast do speed too long and brake too much..

Re: The electric car as a talisman of false hope

#149

Post by ilaksh »

WhompingWindows wrote: post #143
charlesism wrote: post #10

Alot about our system of roads and cars strikes me as crazy. Most of the vehicles on the road have only one person in them, yet weigh as much as an elephant. Nobody drives under the speed limit, which is typically fast enough to result in hundreds of thousands of fatalities every year anyways. Every neighborhood designed primarily for these idiotically heavy vehicles, that occasionally drive over pets and children wh…

Mr. Money Mustache is a financial blogger, he emphasizes minimal living and reducing environmental footprint. He calls cars 2 ton wheelchairs and advocates MUCH more bicycle use. I have to say I agree, we need to cure our ridiculous car habits, especially 1) buying ridiculously huge vehicles with terrible MPG; 2) taking short trips everywhere in the car, when walking or biking would do. https://www.mrmoneymustache.co…

Bicycles are great, but there is no reason all cars need to weigh two tons or have room for 5-7 passengers.

Re: The electric car as a talisman of false hope

#150

Post by choeger »

From my European perspective, this reads like a typical leftist pov. First of all, of course everyone has to change their way of living. This has been the corner Stone of left ideology since forever.

And then of course the attack on EV, because it is not about the climate, but about individuality. Individual travel simply does not fit into a world view where everyone has to change their way of living into the rational way. And offering a different solution is heresy.

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