How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models • Hacker News Board

Re: How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models

#141

Post by samsonradu » Sun, Aug 11, 2019, 1:12 PM UTC

odiroot wrote: post #80

forinti wrote: post #4

This is a process Brazilians know well. Chocolate bars used to have 200g. Some now have less than 100g. Toilet paper rolls used to have 50m; most now have 30m and some have only 10m. This sort of thing started happening in the 1980s, because the government had frozen prices (that always works well). It became such a problem that now the law says that the packaging must clearly point out if the quantity inside has cha…

> Chocolate bars used to have 200g. Some now have less than 100g. I think it's a very good development.

Agree! If there's any inflation I'd like to see it's for sugar products.

Re: How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models

#142

Post by chrisdhoover » Sun, Aug 11, 2019, 1:25 PM UTC

RivieraKid wrote: post #132

foepys wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Relax a bit. The only point GP was trying to make is that it's not just Sweden but in many EU countries it's also a law. There is no need to be aggressive.

To be honest, it is your "relax a bit" and "no need to be aggressive" comments that are kind of passive-aggressive. In the whole history of relaxing, no one has ever relaxed after being told to relax a bit.

Man I’m relaxing now. Got my feet up, contemplating getting a drink after I read these comments.

Re: How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models

#143

Post by username90 » Sun, Aug 11, 2019, 1:31 PM UTC

thinkloop wrote: post #117

drchewbacca wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. I think also there's problems with how GDP is calculated. If everyone who used spotify was paying 79p per track you would see massive economic growth in the music sector. However because it's an all inclusive streaming service not a huge amount more money is moving through it. However as a consumer I am getting 1000x more music now than when I was 15yrs old. That doesn't seem to get recorded though. So much…

> So much stuff on the internet (like stack overflow or github) has gargantuan economic value I'm not so sure about that. Yes they are conduits to massive value, but that value is coming from us, not them. If they were to close down, equally good replacements would be (are) available immediately.

The value is still there though, today I have easier and better access to information, books, education, music, movies, games etc than the richest man alive 30 years ago. Back then people paid a lot of money to get information via physical media like huge encyclopedia sets, what we have today is both much better and much cheaper for everyone. But of course all of those books and cassettes were good for GDP while today's free services are not.

Re: How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models

#144

Post by pas » Sun, Aug 11, 2019, 1:36 PM UTC

dane-pgp wrote: post #6

forinti wrote: post #4

This is a process Brazilians know well. Chocolate bars used to have 200g. Some now have less than 100g. Toilet paper rolls used to have 50m; most now have 30m and some have only 10m. This sort of thing started happening in the 1980s, because the government had frozen prices (that always works well). It became such a problem that now the law says that the packaging must clearly point out if the quantity inside has cha…

I'd also like to see a law passed that requires each product to mention on its packaging if its ingredients (even just their relative proportions) have changed. This would apply to things like foods/drinks and also cleaning products. Of course companies would protest, claiming that their recipes are trade secrets, but we already require that products list their ingredients, and we protect trademarks for products, whi…

There would be new products only, no "changed" ones to circumvent this.

Re: How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models

#145

Post by fulafel » Sun, Aug 11, 2019, 2:14 PM UTC

cco wrote: post #34

Next time someone tells you, "Well even the poorest of us today eats better than a king in the middle ages" think about this quality "inflation". What is the current cost today of putting high quality, wild meat on the table along with seasonally ripe and fresh fruit? What about high quality beer with no use of malt substitutes? There are a number of measures, availability being one, where our modern food production…

I would wager the average consumer today would be very disappointed in beer, meat and fruit from the middle ages (~500-1400 ad). There was no refrigeration, no hops (rare localized use of hops in beer started just at the end of middle ages), fruit hadn't been cultivated very far, etc.

Re: How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models

#146

Post by chiefalchemist » Sun, Aug 11, 2019, 3:16 PM UTC

hnarn wrote: post #66

In Sweden, "jämförelsepris" (comparison price) is mandatory for many goods. This means stores have to, in addition to price, display "price per gram" or whatever unit makes sense. This way, you can quickly compare different groceries despite differing packages, and shrinking the item for the same price would be visible when looking at the comparison price.

We have similar here in the USA. However, the unit aren't always the same. Usually, but not 100% of the time. Also, it's not clear to me if the per unit price reflects a sale price. For where I shop I don't think it does. They don't bother.

Finally, all well and good but best I can tell most ppl lack the basic math skills and/or desire to make an informed decision. This is why shelf space and ad budgets are still so popular with brands.

Re: How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models

#147

Post by unimployed » Sun, Aug 11, 2019, 4:49 PM UTC

prepend wrote: post #121

unimployed wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty sure you are being sarcastic or you are not all that experienced. Talk at length with most economic professionals on /r/economics and you will find the repeatedly stated and unstated views that “the CPI is the most studied economic measurement in the world” and “you are welcome to perform your own study covering the inadequacies of the CPI.” I paraphrased slightly but from memory those quotes are highly accura…

“the CPI is the most studied economic measurement in the world” and it being fallible are not exclusive. I had a great Econ 101 professor. He spend quite a few lectures breaking down how much these key stat suck. Then we spent the rest of the time using them for study because that’s what we have. The key message he drilled into me was that 1) don’t be so certain of your results (or at least don’t sound like an asshol…

I agree, but generally the assumptions being made by authors and known issues with the data are unstated rather than stated. Further, when highlighting such issues, the reactions can often be negative and dismissive. Obviously people don’t like their work being criticized for reasons that they have little control over (it sucks but that’s the best data we have). My point is the topic doesn’t get discussed enough to improve—outside of some corners of academics.

Re: How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models

#148

Post by tzs » Sun, Aug 11, 2019, 5:06 PM UTC

GuB-42 wrote: post #61

dane-pgp wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd also like to see a law passed that requires each product to mention on its packaging if its ingredients (even just their relative proportions) have changed. This would apply to things like foods/drinks and also cleaning products. Of course companies would protest, claiming that their recipes are trade secrets, but we already require that products list their ingredients, and we protect trademarks for products, whi…

So you mean listing the change on already mandatory information. Note that a lot can be told just looking at the label, but few people do it. For example quality meats tend to have more protein, quality diary products tend to to have more fat. High salt and sugar is usually a bad sign. The order of ingredients is important too: greatest amount first. It means that if the thing they advertise in front of the package i…

A friend of mine found a great example of this. She got a packaged snack item that consisted of some bread sticks and some yellow cheese or cheese-like dip.

The front of the package prominently declared "Made With Real Cheese!".

When she read the ingredients list, not only was cheese way down on the list--it was on the bread ingredients list, not the "cheese" dip ingredients list.

Re: How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models

#149

Post by bborud » Sun, Aug 11, 2019, 6:19 PM UTC

hnarn wrote: post #66

In Sweden, "jämförelsepris" (comparison price) is mandatory for many goods. This means stores have to, in addition to price, display "price per gram" or whatever unit makes sense. This way, you can quickly compare different groceries despite differing packages, and shrinking the item for the same price would be visible when looking at the comparison price.

This is why I don't buy certain types of refills where the refill is actually more expensive per unit of measure than what it is supposed to refill.

Re: How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models

#150

Post by pjmorris » Sun, Aug 11, 2019, 6:50 PM UTC

graycat wrote: post #45

JackFr wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So, anytime, in 20 minutes, 7 of effort and 13 waiting, get a pizza faster, better, and cheaper than frozen, carryout, or delivery. I don't know where you live, but in Manhattan your version will be cheaper, but it will definitely not be better and most likely will be no faster. Neither your stove nor your oven can match a commercial pizza oven.

As I wrote, I don't use an oven! Instead I finish the baking in a covered steel pan, and this does give a crisp bottom. > match a commercial pizza oven. "Match" in what sense? What I described is different but works great. For the 20 minutes, even in Manhattan, tough to take the order, make and bake the pizza, slice it, box it, and deliver it, all in 20 minutes. For the quality, that's a matter of taste, but frozen,…

I've wondered whether an unbaked pizza could be slotted in to a preheated pizza stone 'cage', slipped in to a heat sink type cooler for transportation, and bake while it's on its way to its destination. Assuming the details could be worked out, the customer would have hotter, fresher pizza, and the pizza shop could better match its resources to demand. Even if the tech could be worked out, it seems accident prone compared to the current situation.