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Speed matters: Why working quickly is more important than it seems (2015)

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Re: Speed matters: Why working quickly is more important than it seems (2015)

#141

Post by ako »

bluntfang wrote: post #138
ako wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Capitalism isn’t about value of work: you aren’t paid for what you deliver. Free markets are about supply and demand: is someone else willing to deliver the same value for a lower cost. We are all consumers behaving like this, looking for the best deals on products. Don’t expect employers to behave differently.

why did you transition from capitalism to free markets? I'm not sure I believe they are the same thing or are required to coexist in the same system.

Fair point, they are not the same. Reason to do this is because the parent mentioned not being awarded according to value, it seems to me his core problem is with the free market system, not so much with capitalism as a tool to organize power and politics.

Re: Speed matters: Why working quickly is more important than it seems (2015)

#142

Post by erik_landerholm »

koonsolo wrote: post #101

40 year old here. Speed doesn't matter as much as WHAT you deliver. First of all, people do not know how much time something takes. And secondly, they will forget how much time it took, but not how well it was made. Responding fast to emails is just crazy. I lost count on how many urgent problems got resolved automatically. "Hey can you help me with this". 15 minutes later "Nevermind, found it". I'm in the "Slow is s…

This sounds like people who quote "slow in, fast out" in racing. Just like here it's not true. It's a "rule of thumb" for beginners. It has use in that context. The way to win a race is fast in, fast out, same with software.

edit: I'm 42, if the matters.

Re: Speed matters: Why working quickly is more important than it seems (2015)

#143

Post by hammock »

erik_landerholm wrote: post #142
koonsolo wrote: post #101

40 year old here. Speed doesn't matter as much as WHAT you deliver. First of all, people do not know how much time something takes. And secondly, they will forget how much time it took, but not how well it was made. Responding fast to emails is just crazy. I lost count on how many urgent problems got resolved automatically. "Hey can you help me with this". 15 minutes later "Nevermind, found it". I'm in the "Slow is s…

This sounds like people who quote "slow in, fast out" in racing. Just like here it's not true. It's a "rule of thumb" for beginners. It has use in that context. The way to win a race is fast in, fast out, same with software. edit: I'm 42, if the matters.

Sure but is everything a race?

Re: Speed matters: Why working quickly is more important than it seems (2015)

#144

Post by ska »

erik_landerholm wrote: post #142
koonsolo wrote: post #101

40 year old here. Speed doesn't matter as much as WHAT you deliver. First of all, people do not know how much time something takes. And secondly, they will forget how much time it took, but not how well it was made. Responding fast to emails is just crazy. I lost count on how many urgent problems got resolved automatically. "Hey can you help me with this". 15 minutes later "Nevermind, found it". I'm in the "Slow is s…

This sounds like people who quote "slow in, fast out" in racing. Just like here it's not true. It's a "rule of thumb" for beginners. It has use in that context. The way to win a race is fast in, fast out, same with software. edit: I'm 42, if the matters.

I think there is a different connotation to "slow is smooth, smooth is fast", but agree it isn't really a great analogy for production, because it is about learning.

What they mean is that you can't be fast (on a track) without being smooth, and that typically beginner-to-intermediate drivers/riders are trying to be fast in ways that make them less smooth, and ultimately (and counter-intuitively) makes them slower. So the advice is to forget about being fast and concentrate on being smooth. The speed will come.

I do think this has value as an analogy for software, but it is in concentrating on your tooling and methodology - smoother operating will deliver real value faster than just trying to type fast.

Re: Speed matters: Why working quickly is more important than it seems (2015)

#145

Post by ThalesX »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #64
ThalesX wrote: post #61

For me, after years producing software, I've set myself up to be able to say no. I disregard urgency when it exists for urgency's sake, coming out of business despair or a gut feeling. I will gladly work for 2 - 3 months on hyper mode, giving away my mental and physical health for a feature that will actually provide business value and for which the business can make a good case for why it's needed yesterday. Working…

>I will gladly work for 2 - 3 months on hyper mode, giving away my mental and physical health for a feature that will actually provide business value and for which the business can make a good case for why it's needed yesterday. I feel sorry for you. As some who's been around the block a few times, I will never, EVER, give away my mental or physical health for someone's business. My health is more important than thei…

> I feel sorry for you.

I'm doing O.K., thank you for the concern.

> As some who's been around the block a few times, I will never, EVER, give away my mental or physical health for someone's business.

> My health is more important than their quarterly targets.

I wholeheartedly agree, however I believe there are some situations where such a choice is not so bad. If you're young, have no obligations, believe in what you do and will end up a lot better after the sprint, I think it's not such a bad thing. The most important thing I believe is being able to take the time off after said sprint to recover and get things back to normal. It shouldn't be a normality in your life and you should be in total control of the situation.

Also such sprints should be seriously spaced.

Re: Speed matters: Why working quickly is more important than it seems (2015)

#146

Post by ThalesX »

vorpalhex wrote: post #82
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I will gladly work for 2 - 3 months on hyper mode, giving away my mental and physical health for a feature that will actually provide business value and for which the business can make a good case for why it's needed yesterday. I feel sorry for you. As some who's been around the block a few times, I will never, EVER, give away my mental or physical health for someone's business. My health is more important than thei…

In defense of the parent, I can imagine a situation where I'm excited and truly bought into a product as improving peoples lives and am willing to expend the energy to dramatically improve that product in meaningful ways. I think this is something a lot of folks in our industry want, and that's not per se bad though it can lead to negative outcomes.

Thank you for the defense, it's exactly the kind of situation I'm arguing for.

I think it's also important to note the context of who is doing this kind of sprints. Does he have a family? Does he have other engagements? Does he have other health issues?

It's not for everyone, but I believe in my case, timing them properly, recovering properly afterwards and reaping the benefits has worked in my favor.

I might have given the impression that I am advocating for regular such sprints when in fact I have done this rarely, at pivotal moments, with years in between them.

Re: Speed matters: Why working quickly is more important than it seems (2015)

#147

Post by ThalesX »

__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #83
vorpalhex wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In defense of the parent, I can imagine a situation where I'm excited and truly bought into a product as improving peoples lives and am willing to expend the energy to dramatically improve that product in meaningful ways. I think this is something a lot of folks in our industry want, and that's not per se bad though it can lead to negative outcomes.

I had a project like this once. I really threw myself into it. I wasn't dying, but it did have a negative impact on my life in most other dimensions. Then some kind of politics held the project up (likely for years), and they had me work a different project, so I quit, 'cause it was the success of that particular project that had me coming to work (it was gonna prevent traffic accidents, and it was fun to work on). I…

One of the rare instances in which I threw myself into those sprints I was advocating for is working on the national emergency management system. I loved the project, I felt like my contribution to society was well worth the months spent sweating over it. Childless, young and healthy, it was a great experience and I still check the uptime from time to time a lot of years later.

I've since left that institution precisely for what you mention, politics, and exactly like you I something think about working on that project again. I don't think any project I'll ever work on will be as satisfying from a societal perspective, as that one.

Re: Speed matters: Why working quickly is more important than it seems (2015)

#148

Post by ThalesX »

SomeOldThrow wrote: post #111
vorpalhex wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In defense of the parent, I can imagine a situation where I'm excited and truly bought into a product as improving peoples lives and am willing to expend the energy to dramatically improve that product in meaningful ways. I think this is something a lot of folks in our industry want, and that's not per se bad though it can lead to negative outcomes.

This is giving money to the rich. Don’t put in any more time than you need to; no product is worth that.

The rich put money in and they get money out, myself I can only sell my services and when I truly believe in something to see that it is implemented to the best of my abilities.

I will always look after my own health and will always try to maintain control, but each of us has his own context. "No product is worth that" is a general statement that might not apply to everything and everyone.

Re: Speed matters: Why working quickly is more important than it seems (2015)

#149

Post by ThalesX »

TuringNYC wrote: post #89
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I will gladly work for 2 - 3 months on hyper mode, giving away my mental and physical health for a feature that will actually provide business value and for which the business can make a good case for why it's needed yesterday. I feel sorry for you. As some who's been around the block a few times, I will never, EVER, give away my mental or physical health for someone's business. My health is more important than thei…

I feel both sorry for the parent and also relate to it. I have several sprints a year that get me so excited about work, that I will head to work after kids’ bedtimes to code — all night — because I can’t stop thinking about some solution. Sometimes I’m so excited I wouldn’t be able to sleep so might as well work.

Answering as you are referring to my post. The kind of sprints I'm advocating for are few and far in between and shouldn't be taken lightly.

Re: Speed matters: Why working quickly is more important than it seems (2015)

#150

Post by invalidOrTaken »

SomeOldThrow wrote: post #111
vorpalhex wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In defense of the parent, I can imagine a situation where I'm excited and truly bought into a product as improving peoples lives and am willing to expend the energy to dramatically improve that product in meaningful ways. I think this is something a lot of folks in our industry want, and that's not per se bad though it can lead to negative outcomes.

This is giving money to the rich. Don’t put in any more time than you need to; no product is worth that.

It's not a war. The rich are to be feared and pitied, like all humans.
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