Activision Blizzard has moved billions of dollars of profit into tax havens • Hacker News Board

Re: Activision Blizzard has moved billions of dollars of profit into tax havens

#141

Post by Retric » Sun, Aug 04, 2019, 10:30 PM UTC

anm89 wrote: post #121

Retric wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone talking to a politician about an issue is a lobbyist, that’s what lobbing means. It’s easy to think only those people you disagree with are lobbyists, but even just sending a letter to your congressional representative is lobbying. And there are paid lobbyists on both sides of almost every issue.

This is at best half true. There are professional lobbying organizations that have vastly more resources and know how than individuals. And when people complain about lobbyists everyone knows that a this is what is being referenced.

The well connected, paid, lobbyists, who need to register, are only the tip of the iceberg.

So called grass roots lobbying generally involves well funded groups organizing or convincing individuals to do the talking. Pretending that’s somehow different from paid lobbyists is missing how politics works.

Companies and Unions for example are often at odds on specific issues, but they both get sincere individuals to be doing some of the communication.

Re: Activision Blizzard has moved billions of dollars of profit into tax havens

#142

Post by mettamage » Sun, Aug 04, 2019, 10:32 PM UTC

Ah, ever since I'm doing consulting prep (for a couple of weeks now), I have a new perspective on this. It's just a new perspective, that I happen to trade in in for my soul, not as a price, but as a side effect really, but whatever. I guess that had to happen if you want to know what game the executive suite is playing :D

The question is: why wouldn't they?

Big corporations exist for one reason which is brought about by a myriad of incentives from stakeholders (e.g. consumers, shareholders, employees and the state).

That reason is: to generate as much profit as possible. Some say it's about growth or revenue, IMO those are all indirect ways to potentially generate more profit.

That's it, that's why big corporations exist. They're quite mindless in that sense because this mostly comes about by the interaction of all the stakeholders.

So from Activision Blizzard its perspective, I applaud them. This is what they should be doing. There's less financial pressure on employees (aka layoff season is probably even further away now), shareholders see more signs of their favorite currency in their eyes, the regulator/state is simply picking a victim that isn't as savvy and the consumers can play new amazing Warcraft games for years to come! Oh, and the victim has trouble to organize itself, so that helps.

In short, they are doing well.

For the state and economics researchers I'd say: if you care about wealth distribution to the people, then figure out how to get their money.

I wonder, if the state wants tax money so badly and the state is represented by the public, then why doesn't the state compete or invest in companies? You can't tax Activision Blizzard, but you definitely can tax a state owned company (right? Or is there something I'm missing).

Re: Activision Blizzard has moved billions of dollars of profit into tax havens

#143

Post by jeiri9 » Sun, Aug 04, 2019, 10:34 PM UTC

FDSGSG wrote: post #6

It's downright ridiculous to complain about companies taking perfectly legal steps to reduce their tax burden. As the oft-quoted US judge Learned Hand said: > Anyone may arrange his affairs so that his taxes shall be as low as possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which best pays the treasury. There is not even a patriotic duty to increase one's taxes. Over and over again the Courts have said that there is…

Yes but you see if we publish articles discussing changes those laws, they might change.

How can we keep from publishing too many of those kinds of things?

Re: Activision Blizzard has moved billions of dollars of profit into tax havens

#144

Post by simplify » Sun, Aug 04, 2019, 10:35 PM UTC

mettamage wrote: post #142

Ah, ever since I'm doing consulting prep (for a couple of weeks now), I have a new perspective on this. It's just a new perspective, that I happen to trade in in for my soul, not as a price, but as a side effect really, but whatever. I guess that had to happen if you want to know what game the executive suite is playing :D The question is: why wouldn't they? Big corporations exist for one reason which is brought abou…

I hate it when people rationalize-justify this behavior of corporations. Look up the history around the Freedman doctorine. It wasn't always like this, and it doesn't have to be.

Re: Activision Blizzard has moved billions of dollars of profit into tax havens

#145

Post by karlp » Sun, Aug 04, 2019, 10:38 PM UTC

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #132

slaymaker1907 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this kind of reasoning needs to be questioned since the mechanisms available to large corporations and the wealthy completely outclass those available to less wealthy citizens and small business. Additionally, despite the delusion that some companies and individuals may have, they damn well do have similar and perhaps greater obligation to work towards the betterment of society. For some reason, we seem to th…

Don't make the mistake of equating paying more tax with the betterment of society. I think it was PJ O'Rourke who said something like giving money and power to politicians is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys.

Well, I don't know if you have seen the places where politicians have neither money nor power, but it's not pretty.

Re: Activision Blizzard has moved billions of dollars of profit into tax havens

#146

Post by matz1 » Sun, Aug 04, 2019, 10:42 PM UTC

throwaway07Ju19 wrote: post #49

thekyle wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is nothing immoral about legally minimizing your tax liability. This is like saying that it's immoral for me to contribute to my Roth IRA.

The tax law is written to incentivize desired behavior. We all benefit when you save for retirement so that you aren't a burden to society later. But loopholes are different. If you discovered a loophole that made it so your landlord can not enforce rent collection, would you stop paying rent ? That's basically what these companies are doing.

> If you discovered a loophole that made it so your landlord can not enforce rent collection, would you stop paying rent

I certainly would. Thats why you have to be clear with the law and enforcement.

Re: Activision Blizzard has moved billions of dollars of profit into tax havens

#147

Post by rapind » Sun, Aug 04, 2019, 10:43 PM UTC

oconnor663 wrote: post #106

mattmanser wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it's not. That's how change happens. It's still perfectly legal to destroy the environment in many ways, it doesn't mean we can't complain about it. If we don't talk about it, nothing happens.

No one designed the environment to be destroyed. But tax laws are often designed precisely to incentivize people to behave in a certain way. If we raise taxes on cigarettes, and then people smoke less, and tax revenue goes down, does anyone complain? Of course not; that's why we raised taxes on cigarettes. Now sometimes you have tax laws that are poorly designed, where we don't like what happens when people follow th…

Raising taxes on cigarettes or liquor with the intent of influencing behavior is big brother BS. If however you're doing it to pay for the future health care costs that smoking incurs I'm all for it (if the health care system is public).

The whole "nudge" practice because nosy people want to decide what's best for others drives me nuts.

Re: Activision Blizzard has moved billions of dollars of profit into tax havens

#148

Post by sieabahlpark » Sun, Aug 04, 2019, 10:43 PM UTC

karlp wrote: post #145

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't make the mistake of equating paying more tax with the betterment of society. I think it was PJ O'Rourke who said something like giving money and power to politicians is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys.

Well, I don't know if you have seen the places where politicians have neither money nor power, but it's not pretty.

I've seen the places where politicians have all the money and power and those countries also are not ones I'd live in

Re: Activision Blizzard has moved billions of dollars of profit into tax havens

#149

Post by golemiprague » Sun, Aug 04, 2019, 10:46 PM UTC

jjoonathan wrote: post #130

oconnor663 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one designed the environment to be destroyed. But tax laws are often designed precisely to incentivize people to behave in a certain way. If we raise taxes on cigarettes, and then people smoke less, and tax revenue goes down, does anyone complain? Of course not; that's why we raised taxes on cigarettes. Now sometimes you have tax laws that are poorly designed, where we don't like what happens when people follow th…

If you find a legal loophole that lets you steal cars and subsequently take advantage of it to steal cars then you are still a car thief, still a bad person, and the theft is still newsworthy. The fact that your were "merely following incentives" does not make it right and does not make it uninteresting. Quite the opposite. You're even more culpable if it is later discovered that you lobbied for the loophole. Society…

What do you mean by loophole to steal car? stealing is taking something that doesn't belong to you, that's what government do when they tax you, they just encode it in law. You forgot that money you earned belongs to you, that's the default, not to the government.

Re: Activision Blizzard has moved billions of dollars of profit into tax havens

#150

Post by TheSpiceIsLife » Sun, Aug 04, 2019, 10:46 PM UTC

karlp wrote: post #145

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't make the mistake of equating paying more tax with the betterment of society. I think it was PJ O'Rourke who said something like giving money and power to politicians is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys.

Well, I don't know if you have seen the places where politicians have neither money nor power, but it's not pretty.

It’s not meant to be an ideology indented to be implemented.

It’s meant only as a critique.