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Boeing 737 Max ordered by Ryanair undergoes name change

theguardian.com

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Re: Boeing 737 Max ordered by Ryanair undergoes name change

#141

Post by dmurray »

whatshisface wrote: post #109
appleiigs wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely not. Time and time again, it’s been proven people only care about the cheapest ticket price. You can nickel and dime them, treat them like cattle, and physically beat your customers and they will continue to use your airline and airplanes.

I wonder what the true market equilibrium between ticket price and not dying would be if the FAA let people find their own balance. If a life is valued at $2,000,000 then people would accept a one in a million chance of dying for $2 off their ticket.

People would make irrational choices, certainly in deciding whether to drive or fly. I don't think the market would come up with an equilibrium price for a micromort: at best you could find an equilibrium price for taking some risk of dying in a particular way such as a high-profile airliner crash.

Also, it's hard for even an expert to estimate the current chance of a 737 MAX flight crashing: historically it's around 1 in 5,000, but if they were cleared to fly tomorrow it's hard to say if the rate would be 1 in 10,000 or 1 in 1 million.

Re: Boeing 737 Max ordered by Ryanair undergoes name change

#142

Post by hodder »

Panino wrote: post #35
hodder wrote: post #15

This is disgusting misdirection and frankly feels fraudulent to me. The definition of fraud is as follows: Wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain. What Boeing is doing meets that definition of fraud if you ask me.

If there is fraud here then I think it would be committed by Ryanair. There are essentially 2 transactions to consider here: 1. Boeing-Ryanair: both parties know this plane has been rebadged and have agreed to it. There is no deception. 2. Ryanair-customer: one party has rebadged a known faulty product, claiming it to be something else. There is deception on the part of Ryanair, the entity financially benefiting from…

True enough. Both parties seem to know that they are trying to deceive passengers though. Both are at fault if you ask me.

Re: Boeing 737 Max ordered by Ryanair undergoes name change

#143

Post by rsynnott »

skybrian wrote: post #66
gourou wrote: post #3

> Photos have emerged of a repainted 737 Max in Ryanair colours outside Boeing’s manufacturing hub, with the name 737 Max replaced by 737-8200 on the nose. Now I'm worried about boarding any 737

Why? Do you think their safety record is worse than driving?

Other planes are available.

Re: Boeing 737 Max ordered by Ryanair undergoes name change

#144

Post by teslabox »

txcwpalpha wrote: post #131
alexhutcheson wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is Allegiant, which has an all-Airbus fleet, but you're unlikely to fly them unless you're taking a vacation to Vegas or Florida. Spirit also gets an unnecessarily bad rap. Yes, their seats are tight, but they fly very few true long-haul flights, so it's not that big of a deal, and the Big Front Seat is probably the best value "premium economy" experience in the US. Prices for food and drinks in flight are more…

Allegiant has one of the notoriously worst safety records of any US airline. I definitely wouldn't recommend them if your goal is to pick a safer flying experience. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/allegiant-air-the-budget-airlin... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegiant_Air#Safety_concerns

Allegiant started out with old DC-9's/MD-80's, and a few 757's. They were all replaced with Airbus A320's by November 2018. Most of Allegiant's previous safety problems stemmed from using old jets.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegiant_Air#Fleet

I think the company's startup plan was to use cheap/old fuel-guzzling aircraft to get the business off the ground: it's cheaper to pay for fuel than interest payments on new jets. Now that they've built a stable-enough business they've transitioned to newer planes. Wikipedia says the company's first brand-new jet was purchased in 2017, which was 20 years after the company was founded.

Re: Boeing 737 Max ordered by Ryanair undergoes name change

#145

Post by xtracto »

sametmax wrote: post #70
LordFast wrote: post #6

Out of all the possible solutions, let's go ahead and choose the one that further destroys people's trust in our abilities to make sound decisions! /s Ridiculous.

Immoral yes. Ridiculous no. People have a short memory and a strong affect toward symbolism. Marketing just pulls the desired psychological tricks to reach their objective. It works. Just like lying in politics works. Just like making corporate PR statements work. Just like in your face ads work. Just like showing boobs work. It will work as long as people are cruising in their life instead of trying to build it. It…

> People have a short memory

Just think about the "Sony Rootkit" or countless of other fiascos that have happened over time. Society forgets so easily.

Re: Boeing 737 Max ordered by Ryanair undergoes name change

#146

Post by geezerjay »

skybrian wrote: post #137
imtyler wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're comparing the mortality rate of automobile travel to that of aircraft travel. Would you also compare the rates at which the two forms of travel are subject to, say, bird collisions? Comparing the two is drawing a false equivalence. Yes, flying and driving are both modes of transportation, but they're radically different in terms of methodology.

I don't understand your objection. I asked a question. I didn't pick a methodology for comparison, so you can choose your own.

> I don't understand your objection.

The objection is obvious and very easy to understand; it tries to compare apples with oranges, and here you are trying to argue that they are both fruit.

Re: Boeing 737 Max ordered by Ryanair undergoes name change

#147

Post by txcwpalpha »

teslabox wrote: post #144
txcwpalpha wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Allegiant has one of the notoriously worst safety records of any US airline. I definitely wouldn't recommend them if your goal is to pick a safer flying experience. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/allegiant-air-the-budget-airlin... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegiant_Air#Safety_concerns

Allegiant started out with old DC-9's/MD-80's, and a few 757's. They were all replaced with Airbus A320's by November 2018. Most of Allegiant's previous safety problems stemmed from using old jets. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegiant_Air#Fleet I think the company's startup plan was to use cheap/old fuel-guzzling aircraft to get the business off the ground: it's cheaper to pay for fuel than interest payments on ne…

Delta is also known for using old jets (including MD-80s, a lot of 757s, and until 2014 the DC-9. 25% of Delta's current fleet is these old planes) and is famous in the aviation world for having a stellar maintenance program and few safety issues with them. Up until ~2014, American also had several hundred MD-80s (and still has many 757s) in its fleet, and yet it still didn't have nearly the rate of safety issues that Allegiant has.

Many of the issues Allegiant was cited for were also not only due to the plane being old, but also because Allegiant's maintenance crews (which apparently are very understaffed and underequipped) totally missed the issue and erroneously cleared the plane to fly.

Allegiant's issues may have been partly due to old planes, but as evidenced by Delta/American, if Allegiant had a decent maintenance operation the old planes would not have been a problem. The fact that they still had issues does not speak well of their overall safety program, which is more than just the types of planes they fly, and also affects their current fleet.

Re: Boeing 737 Max ordered by Ryanair undergoes name change

#148

Post by LordFast »

sametmax wrote: post #70
LordFast wrote: post #6

Out of all the possible solutions, let's go ahead and choose the one that further destroys people's trust in our abilities to make sound decisions! /s Ridiculous.

Immoral yes. Ridiculous no. People have a short memory and a strong affect toward symbolism. Marketing just pulls the desired psychological tricks to reach their objective. It works. Just like lying in politics works. Just like making corporate PR statements work. Just like in your face ads work. Just like showing boobs work. It will work as long as people are cruising in their life instead of trying to build it. It…

Can't argue with you, that was very poignant.

Re: Boeing 737 Max ordered by Ryanair undergoes name change

#150

Post by gumby »

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #133
Kiro wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What mid-size and above company lets you book your own flights at all?

What company doesn’t ? Who books them otherwise?

Corporate travel department that enforces the travel policies.
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