Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook • Hacker News Board

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#141

Post by Tepix » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 1:30 PM UTC

dominostars wrote: post #98

JDiculous wrote: post #36

Great, the butterfly keys were an enormous downgrade in terms of comfort, and one of the reasons I sold my 2017 Macbook Pro. But will they still keep that awful touchbar where the Esc and F1-12 are supposed to be? Then I'll still be passing.

I’m still using my 2012 MacBook Pro desperately hoping they release a new 15-inch line without the Touch Bar. I had bought a MacBook pro with the Touch Bar and after a few weeks I just hated it more and more and returned it. I’m still mad about them ditching MagSafe but I can get over that at least.

Same here with the Macbook Pro 2012. I upgraded its SSD cheaply using a mSATA adapter, something that's not possible with more recent models.

I don't see how this lack of upgradability meets the needs of "Pro" users.

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#142

Post by rorykoehler » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 1:31 PM UTC

Perceptes wrote: post #71

I desperately hope this is true. I have the first MacBook Pro that came with the Touch Bar, and it's the worst computer I've ever owned. The keyboard has failed twice, and the Touch Bar is inferior to the old hardware keys in every way. I hate it. The only reason I got it is because the MacBook Air it replaced was dying and I couldn't wait any more. Assuming this report is true, my only remaining worry is that they w…

I bought a maxed out 2013 mbp instead. Was ready to buy a brand new one cash in hand but couldn't bring myself to do it. Still waiting...

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#143

Post by cglace » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 1:31 PM UTC

Razengan wrote: post #76

whitehouse3 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fairness, the news story you linked about outsized MBP sales was before the keyboard scandal hit the press. And much of that demand was a result of Apple’s failure to spec bump their pro machines. Lots of us were waiting for the next generation.

> the news story you linked about outsized MBP sales was before the keyboard scandal hit the press. Even then, there was similar snarfle about Apple "failing" when the new Touch Bar redesign was first revealed, where a few handful of people were opting to speak on everyone's behalf, saying that the new MBPs will flop and nobody will buy them. Then again, this has been going on for over 20 years: http://forums.macrumo…

I think you are confusing sales with people liking the new design. People that have bought into the ecosystem may buy the new design even though they prefer the previous iteration.

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#144

Post by RayVR » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 1:31 PM UTC

Having used the 2018 MacBook Air for about 3 months now, I can say I really detest it and I would return it if that were possible.

1) the keyboard. This thing really feels like slamming your fingers into a metal slab. I think my iPad Pro keyboard is better. The MacBook Air keyboard is also very loud. For something with so little depth the sound is shocking.

2) the webcam. Total garbage. In a laptop this expensive I think this is inexcusable. my old ipad has a significantly better camera for video calls so I’m not carrying around both. Ridiculous.

3) the new charger is so much worse than I could have expected. The lack of MagSafe I knew about, thought it would be ok. Really a big loss. There’s also something wrong with the cable. It’s constantly getting kinks/twists in the wiring which I can’t straighten out, even though I baby it.

If they release a new MacBook Air this year I’ll definitely feel a bit betrayed. Like they knowingly released something that was a stop-gap PoS.

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#145

Post by baybal2 » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 1:32 PM UTC

I was on board with a company trying to make a new type of keyboard switch in 2017. The venture folded, but I'd say not for technical reasons.

They used a parallelogram mechanism in addition to a spring to provide quadratic easing in force feedback.

Nobody tried the same scheme since then as I know.

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#146

Post by rorykoehler » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 1:33 PM UTC

vbezhenar wrote: post #111

xattt wrote: post #85

I sardonically worry that they will offer a touch screen keyboard instead.

I'm amazed by my iPhone 8 home button. It's not a real button, it's just an imitation, but its feedback is so real. I don't know whether it would be possible, but I think that it's a possibility: to imitate an entire keyboard with just flat touch panel. That would solve all problems with those movement parts that always failing and there would be no holes for dust at all!

They have put in a patent for exactly this https://www.macrumors.com/2019/02/04/apple-exploring-new-gla...

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#147

Post by dickeytk » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 1:34 PM UTC

Perceptes wrote: post #71

I desperately hope this is true. I have the first MacBook Pro that came with the Touch Bar, and it's the worst computer I've ever owned. The keyboard has failed twice, and the Touch Bar is inferior to the old hardware keys in every way. I hate it. The only reason I got it is because the MacBook Air it replaced was dying and I couldn't wait any more. Assuming this report is true, my only remaining worry is that they w…

This isn’t about the Touch Bar, it’s about the butterfly mechanism.

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#148

Post by jillesvangurp » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 1:34 PM UTC

rev12 wrote: post #121

It seems like there are two camps of people: Those who are very pleased to hear they will be backpedaling on their updated keyboard designs. Those who "don't understand" because they actually like the new keyboards (and the TouchBar even). No matter where you stand, the new keyboards are highly controversial and divisive, and that's not good. The old keyboards didn't put people into opposing sides, they just were the…

I'm in the former camp and I don't really know a lot of people that own Apple products that actually have anything positive to say about either the keyboard or the touchbar. So the other camp is probably pretty small. I know a disturbingly large number of people that already had keyboard replacement (multiple in several cases) and the only reason I haven't gone in myself yet is that not having a laptop for a week plus is very inconvenient so I've been living with a flaky command key for a while now.

So, good riddance. What took them so long?

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#149

Post by oldmantaiter » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 1:34 PM UTC

Thiiss is reaelley good newes, my thirid genereatiiion keyeeboard . stiill has . isssuees

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#150

Post by Octoth0rpe » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 1:36 PM UTC

robertAngst wrote: post #78

dougmwne wrote: post #7

Thank goodness. MacBooks are the best laptops in many respects, but I had to cross them off the buy list due to the keyboard. I understand it's controversial, but for me I've spent plenty of time using the butterfly keyboard and it just doesn't feel comfortable to me. And I'm not some mechanical keyboard purist, actually my favorite keyboard of all time was the previous chicklet keyboard. A runner up for me is a trav…

> MacBooks are the best laptops in many respects I've never heard this before. I thought some people needed their proprietary software that could only be run on Apple products, and that is what forces someone to buy a Macbook. What are they best in class for? EDIT: Thank you for the serious responses

> What are they best in class for?

Best overall balance between performance/weight/battery life.

Best trackpad, hands down, no caveats, no balancing against other concerns. It's just that good.

Best integration with other devices (iphone, watch, etc). Making calls/sending text messages from a laptop is something I'm unwilling to give up at this point.

And most importantly, it's _by far_ the best support for a commercial unix/unix-like OS on a laptop. Dell isn't too bad though.

In the end, unix or a unix-like os is hard requirement for many of us, and I'm just too tired of fiddling with xorg/powertop to get decent battery life. I just want to get work done.