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I’m not really a good web developer, I'm just good at Googling things

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Re: I’m not really a good web developer, I'm just good at Googling things

#141
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you do about license tainting in your code base? Stack overflow provides all of its answers under a Creative Commons license. An example may have been lifted from a GPL source, do you care that you have contributed this to your community project or corporate employers code? If the answer is no, then why care if you google or not

I'm not sure you can licence how to do x in language or y with framework in a license as the code is not being copy/pasted but rather used as documentation on how to do things.

I wish that were always true.

I worked at a place where I was working on a feature that had to integrate with some code that a consulting group had developed for us. As I looked at their code, I knew that it had been developed by a single developer in their group, but it was odd in how completely disjointed the code was... even in individual source files; it was like it was developed by a team that didn't talk or plan together: no consistency in naming, functional boundaries, code style, etc.

This had raised some red flags for me... so I took some snippets and googled them. Sure enough, the code was largely an assembly of cut/paste code units from various blogs, Stack Overflow, etc. that had been glued together with only small changes made to get the disparate bits to talk to each other.

The applications we were building were IP sensitive and the developer and consulting group had represented this as original work. No indication of where the code originated came in any form or communication. Truth is that enough of this copied code was sufficiently verbatim that there would have been no question as to copyright ownership (not us or the consulting group) and with many questions regarding as to if we had copyleft license terms, permissive terms... or had no license at all to use the works.

Naturally this led to much unhappiness on our part and had both sides going for their contract terms. It also didn't help that our company's products were substantially business legal services and close to half of the employees at that time were attorneys.

This isn't to say we didn't use many of the same resources in our internally developed code: but we did so as you suggested... as documentation and knowledge sharing. We also were fairly scrupulous about stating where ideas and techniques we learned this way originated via code comments including links to the source we relied on.

Re: I’m not really a good web developer, I'm just good at Googling things

#142

One of the things I don't like about webdev (among many) is that I even have to Google in the first place. Manpages are so much more immediate and accessible. I also think that anything js-adjacent has a real culture problem. Trying to dredge an answer out of a Medium tutorial written in a cloying tone and interspersed with pointless gifs can be such a groan enducing experience. I'm hoping that the community will mat…

> One of the things I don't like about webdev (among many) is that I even have to Google in the first place. Manpages are so much more immediate and accessible. I don't really get this response. First there's the notion that "webdev" is the discipline where information is so fractured that you need to go googling around to figure out how to do everything. All the other disciplines have a magic thing called a man page…

Also the "manpage" does exist - it's the spec. But I've never met a single person who has ever directly read it.

Re: I’m not really a good web developer, I'm just good at Googling things

#144
post #8

I'm a college professor. I try to teach my students enough that they know what to Google, and that they can understand and use the result. I can't teach nearly everything they might need in the future, but I can give them the foundation.

Of course. Even MDs, despite all their years of study don't have all the procedures and possible diagnoses in their heads all the time and need to read literature and consult with other physicians to reach conclusions. I'm not sure why people think software development (and computers in general) is somehow different. We don't know everything. We basically can't . What we (and all other professions) have is knowledge…

Consulting with other specialists or reading specialist literature is in a wholly different class of information quality compared to using a search engine.

Re: I’m not really a good web developer, I'm just good at Googling things

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One of the things I don't like about webdev (among many) is that I even have to Google in the first place. Manpages are so much more immediate and accessible. I don't really get this response. First there's the notion that "webdev" is the discipline where information is so fractured that you need to go googling around to figure out how to do everything. All the other disciplines have a magic thing called a man page…

Also the "manpage" does exist - it's the spec. But I've never met a single person who has ever directly read it.

MDN does a pretty good job of distilling the web spec into readable documentation: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/

Re: I’m not really a good web developer, I'm just good at Googling things

#146
I think this guy wrote a great article. However I don’t know if I agree with his conclusion of him not being a good web developer.

I would bet that most great developers have googled often enough. In their defense googling is a more efficient tool than pouring through manpages all the time that have poor search indexes.

Also, in this developer’s blog, there is no reference to the fact that his code is buggy or less maintainable, or plethora of other reasons that categorically make him a bad developer.

I think it’s ok, to use help from google or stack overflow to do a good job at your task and that doesn’t make you a bad programmer.

Re: I’m not really a good web developer, I'm just good at Googling things

#147

Google is not a search engine. It is a memory upgrade, and anybody who tries to write software with a standard human memory is obsolete.

To stretch the analogy a bit: it’s like virtual memory. Not as fast as RAM, but there’s an effectively infinite amount of it.

Since one's brain is not able to translate a thought into a search engine query which leads straight to the answer, that virtual memory analogy doesn't work at all.

Re: I’m not really a good web developer, I'm just good at Googling things

#148
So one of the things that the author should Google is “salesmanship“. Everybody uses Google as a reference, no shame in that. Everyone uses spell check also. But would you go into an interview and proclaim your a lousy typist dependent on spellcheck? Putting your full real name on a blog and announcing to the world that your a lousy developer, that is just as bad. Much like cops posting racists rants, people on disability pay posting their jet ski antics, and criminals showing off their latest score. I’m sure every one of those people thought it was a good idea at the time, but it’s not, and the internet never forgets. Author should also Google “MacGregor the brick layer”.

Re: I’m not really a good web developer, I'm just good at Googling things

#149

Google is not a search engine. It is a memory upgrade, and anybody who tries to write software with a standard human memory is obsolete.

That's a forced analogy which doesn't quite work.

I've been thinking about this topic a few months ago when considering how I go about finding out information on how various things are implemented in the Linux kernel, as someone that's not a kernel developer:

* option A is that I start by reviewing the literature (most books are quite old, but I might get lucky) to get a general idea about the topic e.g. memory management under memory pressure. Then I search the kernel docs. Then I use any references that I found to e.g. LWN or similar websites. Message groups search. Finally I would do general internet search, SO, etc. In between these steps I might look at sources, although that's hit or miss, depending on the specific topic. At the end of this adventure, I will probably have a vague or middling understanding of what I was looking for.

* option B is that I ask our kernel expert and he tells me what I want to know, because he's continuously read all of the above resources for the past couple of decades.

So not only is the human memory not obsolete, it is daft to think that Google - which is getting amnesia to boot - could "upgrade" it.

Re: I’m not really a good web developer, I'm just good at Googling things

#150

So one of the things that the author should Google is “salesmanship“. Everybody uses Google as a reference, no shame in that. Everyone uses spell check also. But would you go into an interview and proclaim your a lousy typist dependent on spellcheck? Putting your full real name on a blog and announcing to the world that your a lousy developer, that is just as bad. Much like cops posting racists rants, people on disab…

The interviewer who expects me to have every little detail about every single technology I've used in the past stacked up in my mind, won't be worth my time, not to mention joining their company. The comparison to spelling prowess is apples and...melons. Use your favorite search engine to look up "what is the difference between insight and information?"
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