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Asian countries take a stand against the rich world’s plastic waste

latimes.com

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Re: Asian countries take a stand against the rich world’s plastic waste

#141

Post by tomohawk »

athenot wrote: post #50
netfire wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with glass is that it isn’t biodegradable. If it gets broken, it can cause a hazard for humans and wildlife. If it gets thrown away, it’s not going to break down. Glass is good for the ideal case, but not great for the other use cases. For milk and juice, it’s seems like thick paper might be a better option, since it’s biodegradable and recyclable.

Glass is essentially sand. Sure it may be sharp when it just broke, but it gets dull pretty fast in nature. Of all the things that got dumped onto this beach at Ft Bragg, glass was the least problematic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass_Beach_(Fort_Bragg,_Calif...

> dull pretty fast in nature

Especially when a critter chews on it accidentally, or it gets crushed under foot and some ends up in the foot.

It's the dulling process that sucks.

Re: Asian countries take a stand against the rich world’s plastic waste

#142

Post by [deleted] »

chrisanthropic wrote: post #14

The first time I really started thinking about this was years ago after watching the recycling episode of "Penn & Teller: Bullshit" where they essentially warn that many recycling programs consist of shipping our waste elsewhere for someone else to deal with and that some day the countries we send our "recycling"/waste to will likely get sick of it and start rejecting it and we'll be fucked. That was almost 10 years…

[deleted]

Re: Asian countries take a stand against the rich world’s plastic waste

#143

Post by SomeOldThrow »

mehrdadn wrote: post #128
SomeOldThrow wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well-intentioned is a stretch. We really just shouldn’t be using plastic for disposable products, and corporations take advantage of peoples’ lack of knowledge of recycling to neglect their responsibility of proper disposal and pricing. Given the effect of plastic on the environment single use plastics should be priced higher than their (eg) metal counterparts. (This is assuming those have priced in externalities, so…

> We really just shouldn’t be using plastic for disposable products Huh... I would've expected to read we very much should be using plastics for disposables. (Do you want a metal or cloth trash bag?) Rather the problem I see is disposing so much in the first place.

I was more implying things like paper, but I see your confusion.

Re: Asian countries take a stand against the rich world’s plastic waste

#144

Post by rurp »

siberianbear wrote: post #88
hexis wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bottle and can deposit has been going on in Massachusetts since at least the 80's (when I was growing up there) - https://www.mass.gov/deposit-bottle-can-recycling

I'm putting words in NeedsMoreTea's mouth here, but I think he was referring not to deposit schemes, but deposit and reuse schemes. In the 70s and 80s, soft drinks (at least in California where I lived) were packaged in really heavy, thick glass bottles. You paid a deposit on purchase, and a refund on turning it back in, and then the bottles were cleaned and reused . These schemes have seemingly all disappeared. Many…

I like to explore ghost towns and old mines, and one of the things that always strikes me about the leftover trash is how thick and sturdy bottles were 100+ years ago. It's a nice visual reminder of just how disposable most products are in the modern west.

Re: Asian countries take a stand against the rich world’s plastic waste

#145

Post by throw2016 »

A lot of assertions here about waste management and relative harmlessness of landfills.

Do you have experience or exposure to the recycling, waste management and landfill industry that you can share? Have you spoken to any landfill managers, have some idea of the volume of plastic waste and the landfill industry? Or is this just speaking from the gut?

Most articles have experts[1] and researchers[2] expressing grave concern about waste and microplastics from landfills seeping into the environment and polluting animal ecosystems and even our own water and food supply that would give anyone cause for concern. Positioning that concern as 'negative emotional reactions' without providing any science or evidence about why it is so seems unscientific in the realm of wishful thinking.

[1] https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2018-03/documents...

[2] https://www.theseus.fi/bitstream/handle/10024/114539/Kilpone...

Re: Asian countries take a stand against the rich world’s plastic waste

#146

Post by asenna »

chrisanthropic wrote: post #14

The first time I really started thinking about this was years ago after watching the recycling episode of "Penn & Teller: Bullshit" where they essentially warn that many recycling programs consist of shipping our waste elsewhere for someone else to deal with and that some day the countries we send our "recycling"/waste to will likely get sick of it and start rejecting it and we'll be fucked. That was almost 10 years…

Funny how this came up here. Just a couple of days ago, I was debating with my brother about recycling and told him to look up an old Penn & Teller episode on this topic. That episode really left an impact on me and looks like many others.

Re: Asian countries take a stand against the rich world’s plastic waste

#147

Post by uxp100 »

dv_dt wrote: post #126
greensoup wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That it can be recycled without "waste" doesnt mean its worthwhile. Making glass costs a large amount of energy. As far I know, when plastic is recycled, it is better for the environment than using glass.

We're so wasteful in the US. I'd guess that when glass is reused to the point of needing recycling it's a different balance - e.g. when beer bottles in areas of Europe are cleaned and refilled.

That was the practice not so long ago in the US too. But it is complex. Reusables were thicker and heavier than modern bottles, not just the super light high life bottle, but almost every bottle, I believe, and cans are so light in comparison.

Re: Asian countries take a stand against the rich world’s plastic waste

#148

Post by jessaustin »

whatshisface wrote: post #95
nostrademons wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably a combination of NIMBYism and poor land-use planning. Back when many of these landfills were created, they were on the outskirts of urban areas, where "outskirts" = 15-20 miles away. After the wave of suburbanization in the 1950s-80s, suddenly those outskirts are right next to someone's home. Now it's a crisis. Most people's conception of what land is available is limited to their local metropolitan area, an…

Shipping over water is cheaper than shipping over land.

If you live next to a harbor, sure. Lots of places in North America are not near the coast.

Re: Asian countries take a stand against the rich world’s plastic waste

#149

Post by jessaustin »

ryanianian wrote: post #52
pen2l wrote: post #6

This might be a dumb question, but: why don't we do glass-style bottles? I live in America now, but when I used to live in Pakistan 20 years ago, I remember that I would buy pepsi or coki in a glass bottle... and if I wanted to buy a second one, I would go back to the store and give them the old empty bottle, and they would compensate me a few pennies for it -- and the bottle then is presumably washed and reused. It'…

There is a company called Loop that is shipping and re-using packaging. Much of it is aluminum. (Personally I'm looking forward to laundry detergent not coming in an extremely thick single-use plastic thing I know will end up in a landfill.) Glass is very heavy relative to other materials so you've got to include the added shipping weight into CO2 calculations. Glass makes a lot of sense for things you don't buy very…

I always buy detergent in a cardboard box? That's probably not great either...

Re: Asian countries take a stand against the rich world’s plastic waste

#150

Post by m4x »

gingabriska wrote: post #93

I just bought 5 new Prusa i3 MK3 and I print lots of ABS and PETG parts, am I contributed to the plastic problem? Over last 1 month, I ended up using roughly 25KG of plastic.

You could use PLA more to reduce the impact. It's made from plant materials and is biodegradable - unfortunately it still needs to be composted correctly to fully break down, so almost all your parts will still end up contributing micro plastics to the environment.
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