Oberlin College case shows how universities are losing their way

Post by elicash » Sun, Jun 16, 2019, 1:17 AM UTC

UnpossibleJim wrote: post #140

elicash wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't "justify" saying stupid things. I just care about freedom of speech. There's another user who made the point that the facts of this case extend to a dean accusing the business of committing a criminal act. Based on those facts, I think there's a much better argument that you could be making rather than arguing that defending the right to say something is the same as defending the underlying stupid comment.

Freedom of speech does does carry with it freedom from the repercussions of libel and lost wages due to those erroneous statements. Now, you can argue the validity of those laws and their impact on the freedom of speech, but they aren't protected under the free speech laws. They have very real specifications and aren't cart blanche to be an asshole without repercussion. Ignorance of the law has never been a defence,…

Post by thatoneuser » Sun, Jun 16, 2019, 1:28 AM UTC

darkpuma wrote: post #134

thatoneuser wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please enlighten me as to what about my post is rhetoric rather than describing a position and backing it up with facts from this very article. You keep saying I'm doing this yet I can't really see what I'm doing beyond assessing a social phenomenon. Can you be more direct than referring me to nebulous guidelines? Because to me it doesn't seem constructive at all. Fwiw I see posts all over that have the same "fire" t…

He probably objects to language like "despicable" . To fit in around here, it helps to smoke some dope and like, mellow out. Instead of "despicable" you could say something more chill like "disappointing bruh."

Post by ryanobjc » Sun, Jun 16, 2019, 1:36 AM UTC

high_derivative wrote: post #26

jccalhoun wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I often see people on hn saying this is all blown out of proportion and a small vocal minority but when you talk to undergrads these days, you will realize these beliefs are not just a handful of people but carry weight across the student population. This may have to do with the student population because I teach undergrads at a community college and I have recently taught at a liberal arts college and find this re…

This is a fair point - the local cause is the one more accessible. Here is a counterpoint: If you exalt a local event like the one in the original post (an arrest for a theft), or a speaker from the opposite political spectrum to terms like 'violence, hate speech, traumatizing' (words you will find in student newspapers and activism here), what is left for real events of actual drastic impact to society and the lives…

Post by ryanobjc » Sun, Jun 16, 2019, 1:43 AM UTC

surge wrote: post #12

Chazprime wrote: post #2

The merits of the case did not seem to bother Oberlin officials or student protesters. Dean of students Meredith Raimondo reportedly joined the massive protests and even handed out a flier denouncing the bakery as a racist business. Without knowing the details of the case, it's hard to determine who's truly at fault here. Even so, given that the dean herself apparently chastised a dissenting staffer who advocated for…

Short of it was that a student was confronted about shop lifting a bottle of wine, two other students with them assaulted the shop owner/employee when they were confronted about it. All the students admitted guilt for the shop lifting of a bottle of wine and the assault. The university still pressed and encouraged the protests saying they were only targeted because of their race. It should be worth mentioning that th…

Post by elicash » Sun, Jun 16, 2019, 1:48 AM UTC

mullingitover wrote: post #146

elicash wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll answer your question but I hope you answer mine: Do you think I should be able to successfully sue you for millions of dollars if you had SERIOUSLY just called me a racist? If not, we're closer in viewpoint than you want to admit. Now to your question: > What benefits do you think free-for-all slander and libel would give society exactly? I DON'T favor "free-for-all" slander or libel. But to the extent that I dr…

Also, nobody gets sued for libel over honest debate. They do, however, face social repercussions for taking positions out of line with society's values. Freedom of speech isn't freedom from consequences.