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Stripe Chargeback Protection

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Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#141

Post by dexterdog »

itschekkers wrote: post #42
czzarr wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

0.4% is an extremely steep price for a company like mine doing over $2.5m in annual turnover (saas) which has a very low fraud rate. I actually think currently we pay less than that by doing nothing (meaning letting Paypal handle it, and losing every case). However I'd gladly pay a few thousands per year for it, or be able to pay it on selected transactions (only US for instance).

you should look into chargehound[chargehound.com], i think they would work for you.

Their cost estimator estimates 30 minutes preparing a chargeback dispute. I do them when they come in and it never takes even 5 minutes.

Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#142

Post by dexterdog »

crazygringo wrote: post #127

Genuine question: how can this make financial sense for Stripe? If Stripe charges 0.4% for it... then presumably any business with chargebacks of 0.4% value will use it... ...so almost by definition the mean cost will be greater than what Stripe is charging, and Stripe will lose money. Since Stripe is full of smart people... what am I missing here? How is this a viable product?

Many business <.4% will use it because it takes a job off of somebody's plate and these will tend to be larger customers. Small places that deal with a chargeback or two per week are not going to bother.

Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#144

Post by scrollaway »

eeke wrote: post #44
jasonkester wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does that work? When I'm notified of a dispute, the first thing I do is go in and refund the charge. I still have to watch the whole dispute resolution process play out and have it be ruled against me. How would I go about stopping it before it starts, as you seem to imply is possible? Edit to add: Does it even make a difference if I go in and refund the disputed payments? It sounds like I get dinged either way a…

Card issuers are often able to detect that a transaction is fraudulent before it is disputed, and when this happens, they will send us a notification. These notifications are commonly called TC40s (Visa) or SAFE reports (MasterCard). On average ~60% of early fraud warnings end up being disputed, and most disputes have an early fraud warning (though there’s a wide range depending on your business). If you refund these…

60%… I've had some of my customers' cards get reported as stolen, and a recurring charge pop up (on a customer who had subscribed months ago) and get flagged. I do not act on it, a dispute gets filed, and the customer wins the dispute despite me providing evidence that this was clearly an intended charge (and clearing that up with the customer afterwards!).

Winning a dispute on Stripe has always felt impossible to me. I stopped trying after a while, and just let the disputes default to a loss after they time out.

Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#145

Post by quelltext »

jasonkester wrote: post #97
ensignavenger wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no desire to yell at you, simply to cancel the account and request a refund. While sending an email is okay, it would be better if there was a link directly to a page to do so, just like unsubscribing from an email list. Regardless, I would recommend changing the wording from "yell" because that sounds hostile, and most people don't want the conflict.

One nice thing about running your own business is that you can develop your own "voice" throughout the copy on your site and in your communication with users. And that that voice need not be soulless nor corporate nor cleared by Legal. Plenty of people have taken me up on the offer for a refund, and none of them felt the need to "yell", so I think they got the correct vibe. All our site copy and mails have this same…

The people who did end up writing in are not your problem though, are they? It's the ones who don't. I wouldn't base my experience on the ones who cooperated.

Casual tone is one thing (a good thing), but I posit that an actually angry customer will not respond well to this.

"Oh damn I get this email again... and they are telling me I can cancel, but I think I already cancelled... wth. Hmm, maybe they'll give me a refund."

Now at that point whether the customer is right or wrong they'll read the yell part and think that you are mocking their potential interest in demanding a refund.

Maybe I am totally alone here (with the other guy I guess), but while I wouldn't go dispute a charge myself that wording of yours would not encourage me to write in and get my hopes up you are happy to accomodate me.

Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#146

Post by Meekro »

eeke wrote: post #116
globile wrote: post #95

Things like this are great for the average to small merchant, BUT if you're processing more than, say, 50,000 USD a month, relying heavily on the Stripe ecosystem can take its toll and can cost you big time. - Use Stripe as the only gateway for all your international traffic, and you will see alarming drops in acceptance rates, meaning the chance of successfully charging a Mexican customer in Mexico with a US Stripe…

Thanks for your comment. We want our products to substantially decrease the barriers to international commerce, and they’re used by both businesses which are just getting started up to multinational companies with extremely sophisticated understanding of their payments needs. Auth rates are a deep topic, and one we’re experimenting on constantly. The topic of whether a particular business will get better auth rates g…

Thank you for your many detailed replies here! This idea that parent brought up is one I've heard before: Stripe declines payments that a local gateway service would have accepted, for reasons unrelated to fraud protection. That's always made me scratch my head because my (admittedly primitive) understanding is that you're eventually hitting some API at the bank which accepts or declines the charge. Why would it matter whether it's Stripe hitting it or some other gateway? I assume Stripe has more resources to attack such problems than your average Mexican gateway provider, so there must be some intractable problem in there somewhere?

Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#147

Post by wayoutthere »

dexterdog wrote: post #137
wayoutthere wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re assuming there is an invoice; many times there is not which is why the chargeback is auto-approved. For better or worse, the chargeback is the only weapon end-users have anymore.

That's utter nonsense. Most reasonable companies will offer you a refund if you simply ask, especially if you haven't used the service or incurred any costs for the company because of your failure to cancel. When you sign up for a monthly service it is not the company's responsibility to make sure you want to continue each month. Some still do, but it is not required.

Right, but if cancellation becomes a dark pattern, use a dark pattern in response.

Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#149

Post by zmitri »

dexterdog wrote: post #141
itschekkers wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you should look into chargehound[chargehound.com], i think they would work for you.

Their cost estimator estimates 30 minutes preparing a chargeback dispute. I do them when they come in and it never takes even 5 minutes.

Hey there, founder of Chargehound here, it's a slider so you can adjust it to 5 mins if you want.

Many companies do take up to 30 minutes especially if they are compiling a comprehensive portfolio (if the dispute is for thousands of dollars) and are outsourcing the representment.

Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#150

Post by ddebernardy »

luka-birsa wrote: post #99
ddebernardy wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's different from what OP's point is. Dealing with refund requests is easy. The problem is customers who request chargebacks from their banks instead of requesting refunds from you. Payment providers usually contest such chargebacks automatically. This ends up costing you a fee. And if you lose the dispute, or issue a refund as a matter of course, these chargebacks contribute to lowering your account's reputation…

Ideal for a company that has near infinite markup on the goods (eg. SaaS business with very good unit economics). As somebody that processes a lot of payments for physical goods (electronic devices) the preference is not as clear cut. You ship out the goods in the COGS value of couple K of USD just to get the chargeback. We've ended up adding additional heuristics to mark the fishy payments and manual checking before…

No quibble there. Stripe Chargeback makes good sense indeed in your scenario.
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