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Huawei reassesses goal to be world’s bestselling smartphone vendor

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Re: Huawei reassesses goal to be world’s bestselling smartphone vendor

#141

Post by scottLobster »

DevX101 wrote: post #99
mycall wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The long term impact of this Huawei dispute will be China building out a complete vertical communications/computing stack from low level chips to operating system to phone design. Correction, this has been China's plan all along. This skizm is just speeding up the process.

Sure, but access to the U.S. market could have been used as an incentive to ensure data security globally.

Because that's worked so well for the last 20 years.

If China would open their economy to US companies in the same way the US was open to China pre-trade-war, then things could work.

As it stands China makes no secret about their desire to displace the US as the world's leading superpower, they've proven time and again they'll exploit any openings we give them toward that end. They don't want win-win scenarios, they want China-win-everyone-else-lose scenarios. It's long past time we stopped negotiating in good faith with bad actors.

Re: Huawei reassesses goal to be world’s bestselling smartphone vendor

#142

Post by gpm »

DevX101 wrote: post #56

The long term impact of this Huawei dispute will be China building out a complete vertical communications/computing stack from low level chips to operating system to phone design. They won't get any market share in the U.S. but they'll dominate China (obv), India, Africa, and have some decent minority share in Europe. The ban is great for U.S. companies in the short term that are behind on 5G, but this will harm U.S.…

Hopefully the other long term impact will be western companies realizing they can't rely on being able to continue to do business with Chinese ones. The Chinese government will be perfectly happy to pull that plug when it suits them even if the American government hadn't been.

Re: Huawei reassesses goal to be world’s bestselling smartphone vendor

#143

Post by martin_a »

_bxg1 wrote: post #129
tekkk wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So which one you'd rather have spying you, China or US? While it's easy to mock US for doing bad things, at least as European they share a common cultural heritage. And yes, while they spy on their allies they are still allies with many European nations and their military support serves as a core pillar for many European nations' foreign policies. China on the other hand, isn't allied with any European nations and se…

> share a common cultural heritage There's no reason to bring racism into it. This isn't about West vs East, it's about democracy vs fascism. If it were really as banal as us-vs-them, China would have every right to fight in whatever ways they have to. That's why their government is pushing this exact narrative on its own people. We aren't (or shouldn't be) trying to keep China the society down. We're trying to cripp…

> There's no reason to bring racism into it. This isn't about West vs East, it's about democracy vs fascism.

Fascism is a big word. You should be more careful when and where to use it.

Re: Huawei reassesses goal to be world’s bestselling smartphone vendor

#144

Post by anonffghhuyv »

d33 wrote: post #8
bhouston wrote: post #2

I didn't realize the effect would be so immediate. I thought it may affect next year's model but this current gen was fine. If it affects current gen smartphones could it also affect current gen 5g equipment? This would mean hauwei is essentially dead in the water.

This actually makes me wonder - what makes them unable to sell outside of Europe/USA? I heard of them being kicked out of SD/WiFi associations, but how does this affect them in China?

> kicked out of SD/WiFi associations

They are back in now.

Re: Huawei reassesses goal to be world’s bestselling smartphone vendor

#145

Post by metildaa »

DevX101 wrote: post #56

The long term impact of this Huawei dispute will be China building out a complete vertical communications/computing stack from low level chips to operating system to phone design. They won't get any market share in the U.S. but they'll dominate China (obv), India, Africa, and have some decent minority share in Europe. The ban is great for U.S. companies in the short term that are behind on 5G, but this will harm U.S.…

China already has an (uncompetitive) alternative stack, covering silicon to operating system.

The problem is with building a competitive stack, Huawei can't get access to a 7nm fab in China, nor is their talent skilled in working with the limitations of said newer process, which kneecaps their ability to build chips competitive with Qualcomm and Apple.

Huawei can build 7nm chips at TSMC, but due to their ARM license revocation and Qualcomm's inability to license them cellular patents under FRAND during this dispute, TSMC is unlikely to fab IP infringing chips.

If TSMC were to fab these chips, their other 7nm clients (primarily Apple, followed by ARM licensees Qualcomm & AMD (which uses ARM TrustZone)) would all be in an uproar as ARM would likely prohibit the use of their designs at TSMC fabs.

Wrt China building their own 7nm fab, it is very unlikely they will get it off the ground in the next few years. Only TSMC & Samsung have succeeded in this, Intel, Global Foundries (formerly AMD) and many others have spent tens of billions and half a decade trying to build better than 14nm processes to no avail.

Re: Huawei reassesses goal to be world’s bestselling smartphone vendor

#146

Post by metildaa »

HeWhoLurksLate wrote: post #125
friedman23 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The long term impact of this Huawei dispute will be China building out a complete vertical communications/computing stack from low level chips to operating system to phone design. Weren't they already doing this?

Everybody does that to an extent- they'll just have to find some way of getting their CPU's (including their designs) directly from within China . This may not be as hard as people think with the Joint-Ownership thing that the Chinese government requires. I'm sure that chipmakers would love the business if they can get into China. To address your comment- yes, they already do that, but because of loopholes, they prob…

Huawei has no 7nm fab available that will turn a blind eye to pirate ARM chips (since their ARM license was revoked), and it is unlikely any new 7nm fabs will be built in China soon. See my other comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20077587

Re: Huawei reassesses goal to be world’s bestselling smartphone vendor

#147

Post by metildaa »

Barrin92 wrote: post #124
agumonkey wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought Europe was frowning hard on huawei too

Not really hard, there's no united position. Huawei is a significant supplier of 4G infrastructure in Europe so ditching Huawei completely would be very costly, and at the moment it's mostly a matter of the individual nation states. I don't think there's a country that has issued a complete ban comparable to the US, and most European countries will probably purchase 5G tech from Huawei for parts of their networks.

Huawei hasn't updated OpenSSL in their cellular basestation firmware, despite promises to do so in 2012 & 2018: https://hmgstrategy.com/resource-center/articles/2019/04/04/...

These really basic maintenance tasks aren't happening, leaving cell networks vulnerable to anyone who can be bothered to look up a CVE and run the provided demo exploit code. Hard to maintain a network you can't secure :c

Re: Huawei reassesses goal to be world’s bestselling smartphone vendor

#148

Post by metildaa »

agumonkey wrote: post #74
DevX101 wrote: post #56

The long term impact of this Huawei dispute will be China building out a complete vertical communications/computing stack from low level chips to operating system to phone design. They won't get any market share in the U.S. but they'll dominate China (obv), India, Africa, and have some decent minority share in Europe. The ban is great for U.S. companies in the short term that are behind on 5G, but this will harm U.S.…

I thought Europe was frowning hard on huawei too

The telcos really want to have Huawei in the running, as their presence on RFPs causes a 30% price drop in competitors bids.

Problem is, really basic maintenance tasks like updating OpenSSL aren't happening on Huawei's existing cellular basestations, leaving cell networks vulnerable to anyone who can be bothered to look up a CVE and run the provided demo exploit code. Hard to maintain a network you can't secure :c

https://hmgstrategy.com/resource-center/articles/2019/04/04/...

Re: Huawei reassesses goal to be world’s bestselling smartphone vendor

#149

Post by dang »

hahan_may wrote: post #120
__m wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Historically the US didn’t abide by any of these rules either, importing and copying European IP. With China developing further you’ll see them more and more enforcing these rules especially against developing countries. For espionage you don’t even have to go back in time.

Historically US trade black people like livestocks. Does that justify the ongoing human trafficking/sex slave/forced labour in South east asian and eastern europe?

You've already posted several ideological and nationalistic flamebait comments to HN. That's not what this site is for, and we ban accounts that do it. Would you mind reading the site guidelines to get an idea of the spirit of this site? We'd appreciate it.

You might also find these links helpful:

https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html

https://news.ycombinator.com/hackernews.html

http://www.paulgraham.com/trolls.html

http://www.paulgraham.com/hackernews.html

Re: Huawei reassesses goal to be world’s bestselling smartphone vendor

#150

Post by darkmarmot »

tomjen3 wrote: post #117
darkmarmot wrote: post #93

My company, roughly 400k employees and contractors, already sent security notices from the DOJ banning Hauwei, ZTE, etc. devices across the entire corporation. It effectively banned their phones from a not insignificant percentage of the population in one fell sweep.

What do you expect people to do? Go out and buy new phones at a cost that exceed what most people can afford (400 usd, assuming you are in the US).

I didn't make the policy, but it appears the corporation expects that you do not use any of these products in any way that might connect with our systems, per U.S. DOJ guidelines. I think it's interesting to see how quickly and strongly this was rolled out in the U.S.
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