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Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

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Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#141

Post by CWuestefeld »

nimbius wrote: post #125
dontbenebby wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> also worth noting: as a US citizen re-entering the country you do not have to present anything more to a customs agent than your passport. But as a practical matter they can detain you and do a more intense search than they would if you didn't dig your heels in and silently hand them your passport. You'd be surprised how intrusive a search absent reasonable suspicion can be at the border - they just don't have the…

again, it depends on your definition of liberty. I take a hardline stance. to confirm: this is absolutely not recommended for everyone. The demeanor of your CBP officer shifts quite unpleasantly when you decide not to answer them. They will begin to lie to you about the events taking place, as its their job. This information is also valid for CBP stops inside the US while traveling by automobile. Your passport or dri…

for CBP stops inside the US while traveling by automobile. Your passport or drivers license should be all that is required. No questions.

Most of the time the questions are just a pretext anyway. It just wastes time while their dogs are sniffing around your car looking for drugs.

Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#142

Post by alasdair_ »

TallGuyShort wrote: post #138
chrisseaton wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t a passport just a basic photo ID? Seems reasonable to ask for on to check people are who they say they are. Everyone already has a passport.

Many citizens who haven't traveled internationally don't have a passport. My American wife and most members of her family have never had occasion to get one. This is a general problem to be solved, though: occasionally videos surface of Border Patrol agents detaining people until they produce proof they're a citizen. Now, green-card and visa holders are indeed required to carry said documents with them. But citizens…

>Unfortunately, thanks to racists, it's considered politically incorrect to even require a photo ID when voting, so I don't see us solving this problem in a satisfactory way soon.

Give every citizen access to a completely free ID card, including giving them access to the required supporting documents for free.

A lot of people, especially older people and people without a lot of spare cash, simply don't have photo ID. If you're homeless, getting all the documentation needed to get a license is a severe impediment.

Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#143

Post by thekid314 »

nimbius wrote: post #11

also worth noting: as a US citizen re-entering the country you do not have to present anything more to a customs agent than your passport. You are not required to answer any questions at all. Where youre from, where you were, what you did, nothing, however it may result in an inspection of your bags, so it depends on whether your interpretation of liberty is based on personal convenience. Disclosure: ive done this op…

Yeah, They can demand to search your things if you want in. Including unlocking your phone, the alternative is to give them your phone while still locked, or not be let in.

Yes, this happened to me and other journalists.

Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#144

Post by alasdair_ »

mehrdadn wrote: post #29
gumby wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about everyone but I just looked and was shocked to learn 42% of Americans have passports, 10X the level 25 years ago. Personally I rarely carry any ID at all, and when I do it's a non-"real ID" driver's license, which I have though I don't own a car. Almost anywhere where ID is "required" (including air travel) it turns out that if you don't have any you can still do what you want (note I'm old enough t…

> I generally have ID with me only if I know in advance I'm going somewhere where I cannot do without it, a couple of times a month. I fly more than that! Wow, what's the procedure like for when you don't have your ID if you don't mind me asking? What do you tell them when they ask why, how do they verify you, how early do you come/long does it take, etc.?

>Wow, what's the procedure like for when you don't have your ID if you don't mind me asking? What do you tell them when they ask why, how do they verify you, how early do you come/long does it take, etc.?

I mentioned this in another thread but for me they just had me talk to a more senior person who asked me some questions and asked for "a prescription bottle, a bank card or something else with your name on it". They also swiped my hands for explosives. Total extra time was just a few minutes.

Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#145

Post by alasdair_ »

gumby wrote: post #64
mehrdadn wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I generally have ID with me only if I know in advance I'm going somewhere where I cannot do without it, a couple of times a month. I fly more than that! Wow, what's the procedure like for when you don't have your ID if you don't mind me asking? What do you tell them when they ask why, how do they verify you, how early do you come/long does it take, etc.?

I never make a big deal of it, just say casually, "sorry, I don't have any ID with me". If they really want something I hand over a credit card or business card. In general nobody really has a need for ID and would rather not lose your business. You show up with an Amex platinum card and a haircut no hotel is going to deny you a room just because you don't have ID. When you fly without ID (note: this is different fro…

> some federal courthouses for some reason

That's interesting. I wonder what happens if you're a defendant and they won't let you in the building?

Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#146

Post by alasdair_ »

jandrese wrote: post #108
chrisseaton wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t a passport just a basic photo ID? Seems reasonable to ask for on to check people are who they say they are. Everyone already has a passport.

US Passports are not especially cheap and expire after 10 years, so if you have no international travel plans it doesn't make sense to get one. I recently got some for my kids for an upcoming trip and it required me to take time off of work to visit the Post Office during a narrow window when the passport clerk is there, whom we had to pay for her services, to then mail off each passport application individually alon…

And the renewal process for young children requires all the same stuff AGAIN. Two parents, original birth certificates etc. No idea why they can't just use the old passport information with an updated photo. They expire every five years too, so that's three difficult trips involved and a fair bit of expense.

Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#147

Post by JohnFen »

rdschouw wrote: post #116
existencebox wrote: post #7

Am I the only one spooked by the fact that to opt out, you now need to have your passport with you? (and for _domestic travel_ no less) Given that the facial databases contain your data regardless, and the amount of in-airport surveillance (in that you're not gonna avoid being observed and logged), It's more of a, "we're gonna make you present your papers regardless, pick your poison"

The passport is to prove US citizenship. Otherwise you cannot reasonably distinguish between permanent residents and citizens. Both can have a driver's license. Visa holders can have a driver's license too but it mentions the expiration date of your visa.

> The passport is to prove US citizenship.

That's an incredibly flawed thing to ask for with domestic flights, though. Most US citizens don't have a passport at all.

Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#148

Post by alasdair_ »

mehrdadn wrote: post #67
cardiffspaceman wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The passport is a physically-robust booklet, while the drivers license is a comparatively fragile card. I can put the printed boarding pass in the passport, so it's easy to present to the TSA agent. As to how often I travel, I barely got to 10 nights on my highest-status hotel loyalty program, so I guess that means I travel some, but not lots.

Confused what the robustness of the passport has to do with this. I wasn't suggesting the physical flexibility of a passport makes it harder to carry it around or something. People generally just don't carry around passports for domestic travel in their own countries... people already have other IDs, this increases the chance you'll lose your passport, etc. for zero benefit.

>People generally just don't carry around passports for domestic travel in their own countries

I certainly did in the UK, as well as to prove my age in a bar etc. Lots and lots of people "in their own countries" don't have a driver's license because public transport is enough.

Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#149

Post by mehrdadn »

alasdair_ wrote: post #144
mehrdadn wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I generally have ID with me only if I know in advance I'm going somewhere where I cannot do without it, a couple of times a month. I fly more than that! Wow, what's the procedure like for when you don't have your ID if you don't mind me asking? What do you tell them when they ask why, how do they verify you, how early do you come/long does it take, etc.?

>Wow, what's the procedure like for when you don't have your ID if you don't mind me asking? What do you tell them when they ask why, how do they verify you, how early do you come/long does it take, etc.? I mentioned this in another thread but for me they just had me talk to a more senior person who asked me some questions and asked for "a prescription bottle, a bank card or something else with your name on it". They…

Wow thanks!

Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#150

Post by cameldrv »

thekid314 wrote: post #143
nimbius wrote: post #11

also worth noting: as a US citizen re-entering the country you do not have to present anything more to a customs agent than your passport. You are not required to answer any questions at all. Where youre from, where you were, what you did, nothing, however it may result in an inspection of your bags, so it depends on whether your interpretation of liberty is based on personal convenience. Disclosure: ive done this op…

Yeah, They can demand to search your things if you want in. Including unlocking your phone, the alternative is to give them your phone while still locked, or not be let in. Yes, this happened to me and other journalists.

They can't not let you in if you're a U.S. citizen. They can search or impound your property, and they can temporarily detain you, but ultimately they have the choice of letting you in or arresting you based on some probable cause. As a U.S. citizen, sending you back is not an option.
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