Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Julian Assange: Wikileaks co-founder jailed over bail breach

bbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 178 posts

Re: Julian Assange: Wikileaks co-founder jailed over bail breach

#141

Post by leereeves »

_petronius wrote: post #122
leereeves wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ecuador warned the US they would be kicking him out of the embassy, but did not warn Sweden Ecuador hardly needed to notify Sweden. It was international news. The Guardian article from five months ago that I linked was just one of many. "No one in the Swedish government reads international news" is not a credible explanation. I see two possible explanations: 1) Sweden doesn't place a high priority on prosecuting fa…

I don't think either of your "possible explanations" are borne out by the evidence, but then there are a dozen other explanations that are both more plausible, and whose truth-potential is not dependent on whether they make sense to you personally.

If the tweets you link are to be believed, we don't have to guess. Apparently no one in the prosecutor's office reads the news.

I don't find that believable, but whatever.

Re: Julian Assange: Wikileaks co-founder jailed over bail breach

#142

Post by fit2rule »

SkyBelow wrote: post #86
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm trying to decide if this line of thinking is scary or wondrous.

We can be certain that after the failure of MKUltra, no freedom loving first world government ever engaged in such an experiment again. And even if they had, they surely would have informed us of the fruits of such research if any were found.

MK Ultra was not a failure. The lessons learned were, for example, well applied at the "Penny Lane" and "Strawberry Fields" sites in Guantanamo to create double agents ..

Re: Julian Assange: Wikileaks co-founder jailed over bail breach

#143

Post by fit2rule »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #132
fit2rule wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Got an example of something that Wikileaks has released that ended up being 'false'? Because Wikileaks isn't in the business of releasing 'opinions' or 'speculation' - it releases data and material facts, for the general public to make its own conclusions. Ask yourself this question: why is it so hard for you to consider that Wikileaks never lied to you ? Who has convinced you that it is an organization that cannot b…

I'm extraordinarily concerned if someone believes any source above reproach. Has every wikileaks leak been proven true, is it that there are a ton of unproven ones, and a handful of verified? What's the ratio?

I dunno, you tell me? The war crimes are true. The crimes against humanity are true. All of the evidence that has been presented by Wikileaks to demonstrate that the USA regularly assassinates innocent people: quite true.

You might not like the truth, but that doesn't excuse you from investigating it for yourself, especially when its in your name as an American that these crimes are being committed ..

Re: Julian Assange: Wikileaks co-founder jailed over bail breach

#144

Post by effie »

foldr wrote: post #125
guitarbill wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine a few people a year skip bail, and I think it's fair to say most of them don't have a 16 million police operation thrown at them. People also seem to be happy to forget the UN has found he has been arbitrarily detained [0]. The judge could have factored that in, she did not, probably to save face in light of a ridiculous 16 million pound police operation and pandering to US relations. [0] https://www.ohchr.…

>I imagine a few people a year skip bail, and I think it's fair to say most of them don't have a 16 million police operation thrown at them. So? It's only to be expected that more money will be spent on enforcing the law when it's being flagrantly violated in the public eye. I think in reality you object to any attempt to hold Assange to account for skipping bail, and you'd be no happier if only, say, £10,000 had bee…

> "I don't think you can really object that "too much" money is being spent."

If you are UK taxpayer, you can.

> "It's up to the relevant authorities to figure out when enough is enough, financially speaking." It is, but when they spend more than seems appropriate for the offense, then questions and doubts about the incentives pop up.

Re: Julian Assange: Wikileaks co-founder jailed over bail breach

#145

Post by astine »

wybiral wrote: post #112
roywiggins wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The President can pardon all crimes against the United States- the citizenship of the perpetrator doesn't come into it.

Only federal crimes though, so if a state picked up any charges against him the president can't do much about it.

US States can't request extradition though because they can't maintain diplomatic relations internationally.

Re: Julian Assange: Wikileaks co-founder jailed over bail breach

#146

Post by michaelcampbell »

fit2rule wrote: post #67
michaelcampbell wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this is happening at G'mo, it sucks. I haven't heard of any unbelievable turns of faith out of there that brainwashing would cause.

Of course you wouldn't know - this is why these sites are operated clandestinely, and you - the American people - will never know what your government is doing in your name at these sites. Just like the people of the UK don't know what is being done, in the name of their ruler, in sites such as Belmarsh. Those who find this incredible, might want to look - for themselves - at Belmarsh's long history of being a used a…

> Of course you wouldn't know - this is why these sites are operated clandestinely, and you - the American people - will never know what your government is doing in your name at these sites.

And yet, you seem to.

Re: Julian Assange: Wikileaks co-founder jailed over bail breach

#147

Post by foldr »

effie wrote: post #144
foldr wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I imagine a few people a year skip bail, and I think it's fair to say most of them don't have a 16 million police operation thrown at them. So? It's only to be expected that more money will be spent on enforcing the law when it's being flagrantly violated in the public eye. I think in reality you object to any attempt to hold Assange to account for skipping bail, and you'd be no happier if only, say, £10,000 had bee…

> "I don't think you can really object that "too much" money is being spent." If you are UK taxpayer, you can. > "It's up to the relevant authorities to figure out when enough is enough, financially speaking." It is, but when they spend more than seems appropriate for the offense, then questions and doubts about the incentives pop up.

Skipping bail is a serious offense. The criminal justice system would collapse if people were routinely able to skip bail without consequences. This point is especially pertinent when the person who skips bail is in the public eye and everyone can see him getting away with it.

As a UK taxpayer myself, I'm happy to see the rule of law eventually prevail in this instance. It strikes me as stingy and short-sighted to value that outcome at less than a few million pounds.

> It is, but when they spend more than seems appropriate for the offense, then questions and doubts about the incentives pop up.

Not really. I'd use the Madeline McCann case as a comparison. Millions of pounds of public money were spent looking for one missing girl who was (sadly) quite unlikely to be alive. You can question whether that's money well spent. But it doesn't take a conspiracy theory to explain why large amounts of money sometimes get spent investigating cases that are extensively covered in the news.

Re: Julian Assange: Wikileaks co-founder jailed over bail breach

#148

Post by akvadrako »

_petronius wrote: post #45
leereeves wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that Sweden isn't actively pursuing the investigation. Ecuador started arranging for him to leave the embassy at least five months ago. https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/dec/06/ecuador-says-u... Why didn't Sweden have an extradition request ready? They had at least five months to prepare one.

Because Ecuador warned the US they would be kicking him out of the embassy, but did not warn Sweden. I don't think that is in doubt at all. The US does not need Sweden's involvement to extradite and try Assange. The rape charges are separate and irrelevant to the charges he faces in the US, and whether the UK would even grant his extradition to the US is not a sure thing. These two cases are unrelated, and the only r…

They are related because UK might not extradite him to the US, but they might to Sweden, who might extradite him to the US.

Re: Julian Assange: Wikileaks co-founder jailed over bail breach

#149

Post by ChrisSD »

Tycho wrote: post #135
ChrisSD wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, he was scared of the US so he fled to the UK. That makes sense to you? He had sex with someone who is asleep. Some who is asleep cannot consent. You understand that this is rape, right? The women involved does still want to take him to court and the Swedish Prosecution Authority is currently reviewing the matter. The other allegations have passed the statue of limitation and cannot be prosecuted. To be clear,…

It is not established that he 'fled' to the UK, versus leaving with permission, and obviously if they really wanted to they could have stopped him leaving. It's not clear what exactly the accusation is or what the injured party actually wants. But the odds are that this is a ruse.

His own lawyer admits[0] that Assange was informed that Swedish authority were seeking Assange for interrogation, although the lawyer apparently suffers from a certain amount of selective amnesia (as many lawyers do).

It's incredibly clear what the accusations are even if you don't speak Swedish as they're spelled out in the European Arrest Warrant[1]:

> On 17 August 2010, in the home of the injured party [SW] in Enkoping, Assange deliberately consummated sexual intercourse with her by improperly exploiting that she, due to sleep. was in a helpless state.

> It is an aggravating circumstance that Assange. who was aware that it was the expressed wish of the injured party and a prerequisite of sexual intercourse that a condom be used. still consummated unprotected sexual intercourse with her. The sexual act was designed to violate the injured party's sexual integrity.

[0] https://www.theguardian.com/media/2011/feb/08/julian-assange...

[1] http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2011/2849.html

Re: Julian Assange: Wikileaks co-founder jailed over bail breach

#150

Post by ChrisSD »

Tycho wrote: post #136
ChrisSD wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hiding... in the UK initially. He would have been safer from the US in almost any other country aside from the US itself.

I doubt it. Look at Gary Mckinnon. I would rather be in the UK than Sweden. But regardless, he was on Ecuadorian soil.

Sweden disallows extradition for political reasons. If, after fleeing to the UK, he'd agreed to be extradited back to Sweden then both the UK and Sweden would have to agree to any extradition request, which would have been a far better situation then the UK alone.

Instead he ran from the UK authorities too. So it seems that Assange didn't have your faith in the UK. Either that or he was fleeing Sweden and not the US.

Post reply on HN