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Bullshitters: Who Are They and What Do We Know about Their Lives? [pdf]

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Re: Bullshitters: Who Are They and What Do We Know about Their Lives? [pdf]

#141

Post by anonytrary »

kuzehanka wrote: post #7

The notion of bullshitters needs to be brought to the front of our industry's consciousness. Our industry is one where the impostor complex is rife and anyone who sounds confident must know what they're talking about, since even the PhD's aren't half as confident in their field of expertise as a bullshitter is at anything. The tech industry is increasingly inundated with these types of people who manage to get placed…

As a software engineer with a degree in non-CS STEM, I constantly ask myself if I am just a bullshitter. I can pass technical interviews for the most part and I code for fun, but I can't help but think "the people who work at Google are probably better than me".

Re: Bullshitters: Who Are They and What Do We Know about Their Lives? [pdf]

#142

Post by itronitron »

plutonorm wrote: post #47
stelfer wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The realization that I came to was that by speaking up I was usually asking a question that many people were not asking; by providing a strong opinion it would help to catalyze deliberate action. If you stay silent we'll never get anything really done.

Yeah, but I find I usually take a social hit by asking the question. A good 80% of those listening will think that you simply don't understand something. The other 20% are either indifferent or actively threatened by the observation. It doesn't pay to speak up about anything, you just get talked down to by those who are bullshitting.

>> A good 80% of those listening

those listening probably comprise only 25% of the people in the meeting, 5% if it is a standup.

Re: Bullshitters: Who Are They and What Do We Know about Their Lives? [pdf]

#143

Post by DonHopkins »

Why do all Ted Talks and KickStarter Promos sound the same to me? Do I have Bullshit Agnosia?

It's like there's this certain style of Archetypal Motivational Making The World A Better Place Inspiration Porn Bullshit that they're all striving for, and they all use the exact same music and slogans and rhythm and inflection.

Re: Bullshitters: Who Are They and What Do We Know about Their Lives? [pdf]

#144

Post by walterbell »

deephony wrote: post #75
will_brown wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The notion of bullshitters needs to be brought to the front of our industry's consciousness The industry (tech, startups, VC money) do bring bullshit to the front of the industry consciousness. I’ve never seen another industry push and promote “fake it till you make it” so hard. Democratizing this...disrupting that...we respect your privacy and data...DAO/code is law...Self driving cars...uber is creating good jobs.…

Some thoughts on why this is. With VC the customer is actually future investors, and the true product is a pitch deck. Everything else is a prop. At first this seems crazy, but when you consider wealth inequality it becomes clear that the really money is made convincing very rich people to deploy their capital, not in providing valuable goods or services to workers.

> really money is made convincing very rich people to deploy their capital

The industry could use more literature on the "court politics" of this process, including what happens socially if you lose the capital of those rich people, have a disagreement on strategic direction, or partner with rich people who themselves disagree on direction.

Re: Bullshitters: Who Are They and What Do We Know about Their Lives? [pdf]

#145

Post by growlist »

devonkim wrote: post #46
will_brown wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The notion of bullshitters needs to be brought to the front of our industry's consciousness The industry (tech, startups, VC money) do bring bullshit to the front of the industry consciousness. I’ve never seen another industry push and promote “fake it till you make it” so hard. Democratizing this...disrupting that...we respect your privacy and data...DAO/code is law...Self driving cars...uber is creating good jobs.…

A colleague of mine put the problem more succinctly “what other industry is there where the top decision-makers have never done the basic work of the company?” Most executives in finance have done some form of financial analysis and reporting, construction company owners have almost always done a hard day’s worth of labor, and a lot of directors have had to do some acting / camera work and whatnot. In tech (especiall…

me: 'it's a really bad idea to be developing new functionality on Flash in 2018'

management: 'that's not a helpful attitude right now'

Re: Bullshitters: Who Are They and What Do We Know about Their Lives? [pdf]

#146

Post by screye »

Reedx wrote: post #28
SimonPStevens wrote: post #19

I consider myself to be an anti-bullshitter. I once said in a job interview that I knew nothing about the technology they were hiring for, but I was pretty sure I could take a decent stab at it. I was telling the truth. I got the job.

"I don't know" is such an underappreciated phrase (followed with action to remedy that).

I usually take the "I don't know, but I would like to take a stab at it anyways" approach to interviews.

I make my competence on a subject clear. Ie. Did an assignment using this tool or read a few blogs so am aware of it and that's it. But a surprising number of times the problem isn't thay difficult despite my ignorance about it. You can often find a very close analogue to the unknown thing and then take it from there or let the tool itself function as a black box and design the requested system around it.

The plain "I don't know" - er while noble, can often be mistaken for incompetent when every other bulshitter claims to know it all.

Re: Bullshitters: Who Are They and What Do We Know about Their Lives? [pdf]

#147

Post by asveikau »

Veen wrote: post #12
kuzehanka wrote: post #7

The notion of bullshitters needs to be brought to the front of our industry's consciousness. Our industry is one where the impostor complex is rife and anyone who sounds confident must know what they're talking about, since even the PhD's aren't half as confident in their field of expertise as a bullshitter is at anything. The tech industry is increasingly inundated with these types of people who manage to get placed…

If bullshitters rise to the top with very little work or knowledge, then perhaps being a bullshitter is the smart choice for people of a certain disposition.

Smart for the individual. Bad for the whole.

IMO people should think more of the whole, more often.

Re: Bullshitters: Who Are They and What Do We Know about Their Lives? [pdf]

#148

Post by misterman0 »

gooseus wrote: post #133
misterman0 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> push and promote “fake it till you make it” Causality then render a situation where bullshitters have now gotten so good at faking it that buyers of tech are simply herrings among hungry dolphins. Bullshitters in our industry have united and made it impossible for buyers (herrings) to see any other choice but to become swallowed as a meal. So they try their best to choose the very best dolphin to be swallowed by.…

"If you see fraud and do not say fraud, then you are a fraud." - NNT Still something I'm trying to live up to and it's much easier said than done... likely there is a selection mechanism in these organizations where anyone with the courage to do that is recognized and passed over early, or else is removed as soon as they do this.

>> likely there is a selection mechanism in these organizations

There is definitely such a thing as a "selection mechanism" and it lives within every organisation.

In the best of worlds people would be selected for X. X is not:

- feeding the "growth economy" - attribute to "the growth of the market" - "become a unicorn" - destroying wealth, and by wealth I mean "nature" - delegating responsibility not to yourself and your peers but to your offspring

I have no idea what X is and you know what, who cares? Who are we to strive for being the "best of worlds"? We haven't even gotten past the notion of being the "best of nations".

Re: Bullshitters: Who Are They and What Do We Know about Their Lives? [pdf]

#149

Post by mattrp »

rexpop wrote: post #115
devonkim wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A colleague of mine put the problem more succinctly “what other industry is there where the top decision-makers have never done the basic work of the company?” Most executives in finance have done some form of financial analysis and reporting, construction company owners have almost always done a hard day’s worth of labor, and a lot of directors have had to do some acting / camera work and whatnot. In tech (especiall…

So long as human labor is structured under Capital's impetus, we'll have such structures of idiocy because the VC is apodicticly talentless in the domain of his investment.

Apodicticly... harsh bro!

Re: Bullshitters: Who Are They and What Do We Know about Their Lives? [pdf]

#150

Post by walterbell »

parksy wrote: post #135
plutonorm wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but I find I usually take a social hit by asking the question. A good 80% of those listening will think that you simply don't understand something. The other 20% are either indifferent or actively threatened by the observation. It doesn't pay to speak up about anything, you just get talked down to by those who are bullshitting.

I'm familiar with this scenario. It took a while to find the right approach and build the confidence to challenge a room of people with this mindset. It is definitely possible to stand up to this mentality and succeed in a workplace, but it is a constant challenge. After a long time fighting these battles I realised I had gained a lot of skills in dealing with narcissists and sociopaths in the mission to simply be go…

Thanks for sharing your story. What screening methods would you recommend for identifying those great companies / micro-societies?
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