I switched to hr block when I saw what turbotax wanted to charge. I saved 70 bucks by switching and I got to verify my taxes were figured properly!
TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes
141–150 of 283 posts
Re: TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes
#142For us Canadians out there too, SimpleTax[0] is complexity free as well! Super simple design, easy to file. We've used it for a while.
Re: TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes
#143Earlier quoted context omitted.
There may be many arguments in favor of having the IRS sending out pre-filled-in tax forms, but this one just isn't true: > It would cost the IRS almost nothing to send out pre-filled forms Enhancing the IRS databases to actually plug in the information used on a typical tax return almost certainly would not cost "almost nothing." Back when it existed, less than 20% of people filed a 1040-EZ (the simplest tax form).…
> Back when it existed, less than 20% of people filed a 1040-EZ (the simplest tax form). That means you need something beyond just "plug in the numbers from the W-2" for the vast majority of tax filers. Or it means that lots of people who qualified to use the 1040-EZ didn't know about it. Or it means that lots of people who qualified to use the 1040-EZ kept on filing 1040s because that's what they were used to doing.…
The IRS releases aggregated information on what % of people take various deductions or use various aspects of the different tax forms. This information does not support your various alternative hypotheses.
For the record any of the following disallowed someone from using the 1040-EZ
- being over the age of 65
- having any dependents/children
- making over 100k in income
- claiming any deductions at all
Re: TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes
#144Earlier quoted context omitted.
Just curious: how much do you pay your accountant? A single federal/state personal return done by a pro goes for anywhere between $400 and $800 around here, compared to $80 or so with TurboTax. I can’t imagine the difference between an accountant and me doing my taxes to be more than that, especially with a “not terribly complicated” return. Are your taxes really hundreds of dollars less just from hiring a sorcerer t…
I used to use TurboTax and painstakingly enter everything imaginable and read everything to make sure I wasn't missing anything and would consistently get back around $4,500 to $5,000 in total between Federal and state. Using him, we got back $6,500 total. Also, with the Trump tax changes taking effect, a bunch of coworkers of mine said they got screwed and got back like half of what they used to get back. A few said…
Comparing the refund amount isn't very informative. Effective tax rate or dollars paid is a better comparison, especially in years like this one where the witholding tables got kinda weird so lots of people over/underpaid their taxes over the course of the year.
Re: TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes
#145Earlier quoted context omitted.
There may be many arguments in favor of having the IRS sending out pre-filled-in tax forms, but this one just isn't true: > It would cost the IRS almost nothing to send out pre-filled forms Enhancing the IRS databases to actually plug in the information used on a typical tax return almost certainly would not cost "almost nothing." Back when it existed, less than 20% of people filed a 1040-EZ (the simplest tax form).…
The US government currently takes in about $1.7 trillion in individual income taxes per year, so even spending $500 million to pre-fill forms would be almost nothing (0.03%). Heck, that's less than a useless aircraft carrier or a Facebook consent decree violation. The IRS already has W-2s and 1099s, which cover ordinary pay and retirement investments, and enough money has probably been automatically withheld already.…
For the record, the IRS (in partnership with various tax companies) already providers for free filing for people making less than 66k/year.
https://www.irs.gov/filing/free-file-do-your-federal-taxes-f...
Re: TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes
#146Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nah, you're missing the forest when looking at the trees. Go bigger. Why the hell is the tax code so damn complicated that it requires certified experts and special software to perform personal tax filings? I can see the case for a complex code for business taxes since there are many different industries that have different rules. But personal returns should never, ever have such complicated rules. And that doesn't m…
But how can I incentivise people to do things like buy hybrid or electric cars, solar, etc without tax breaks, and how do I do tax breaks without complicated calculations based on laws pseudocode) and a bunch of other numbers?
I'm in the camp that there should be no incentives for taxes for anything. Similarly there should be no difference in filing married vs separately or with children.
To me it just feels wrong to incentivise living a certain lifestyle by getting a discount at just existing. It is great when it incentivises the things you want, such as hybrid cars or something, but what would happen if someone wanted to give you a discount for purchasing gas cars when they become less common because of relations to the oil and gas industry?
Or maybe tax incentives for purchasing private telecom service if/when municipal networks ever become commonplace?
If you they can lower tax liability for a certain amount why not lower it to the actual level needed across the board instead of keeping some cushion to give away coupons?
Re: TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes
#147Earlier quoted context omitted.
A few years ago my finance class had a homework assignment which was to calculate the interest rate you were paying for this "service". It was a good assignment, because there is no "right" answer, because it depends how you define certain values, but all the figures came back with this "service" is like a loan with a 40-80% interest rate.
A 40-80% rate per week! If it's just regular filing, that's something like $70, and the IRS pays the refund in about a week. TurboTax claims they vouche for the validity of the filing, so there's little risk of it not coming through, and even if it does, they can just say, "oops, we can't file for you until you do XYZ" and boom, they didn't finish providing the service. So, that's a $40 loan on $70 of principle, or 5…
It's a little better than that: 1.57^52 - 1.
R_n = (1 + R_0)(1 + R_1)...(1 + R_n) - 1
It's easier to just use log return:
r_n = r_0 + r_1 ... r_n
where
r = log (1 + R)
Anyhow, compounded returns aren't the best way to think about this. It's not like they could extend the period and realize the compounded returns.
Re: TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes
#148Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nah, you're missing the forest when looking at the trees. Go bigger. Why the hell is the tax code so damn complicated that it requires certified experts and special software to perform personal tax filings? I can see the case for a complex code for business taxes since there are many different industries that have different rules. But personal returns should never, ever have such complicated rules. And that doesn't m…
Gotta pass out special privileges. With complexity comes opportunity.
One of the most complexity inducing areas of the tax code, The Alternative Minimum Tax, has a lot more to do with taxing certain people extra than handing out any special privileges.
That and form 8960 (Net Investment Income Tax Individuals, Estates, and Trusts) are both direct contradictions to you assertion.
Re: TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes
#149I want to take this opportunity to mention that the IRS Free Fillable Forms service is completely free for anyone. It might not be the best choice for everyone, but I found that despite all these tax services' low cognitive load, they ask so many questions with so many steps that the actual time that it takes to file with TurboTax wasn't actually any faster than just biting the bullet and reading some instructions. A…
I've looked at that section on the IRS site every other year for twenty, still can't make heads or tails of it. I end up opening another tab and downloading 1040.
Re: TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes
#150The real dark pattern is their ability to bribe the Congress into preventing IRS from implementing free filing.
Nah, you're missing the forest when looking at the trees. Go bigger. Why the hell is the tax code so damn complicated that it requires certified experts and special software to perform personal tax filings? I can see the case for a complex code for business taxes since there are many different industries that have different rules. But personal returns should never, ever have such complicated rules. And that doesn't m…
You don't need an expert to file a personal return.
But, the core problem is that in the US we use the tax system as a method for distributing subsidies for various things. Buy a solar panel? Instead of writing you a check, we give you a tax credit. Have a kid? Tax credit.
You could certainly simplify the act of filing taxes, but HR Block and Intuit lobby heavily against that. As far as moving away from using it as a distribution mechanism for subsidies, that complexity could be removed from the tax code but it will get pushed somewhere else instead. I think most people would prefer getting their child tax credit through taxes than having to apply at a welfare office and get a check.