It seems that Google is forgetting the old web • Hacker News Board

Re: It seems that Google is forgetting the old web

#141

Post by sitkack » Mon, Apr 08, 2019, 4:07 PM UTC

Liquix wrote: post #104

founderling wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is an example: http://www.gnoosic.com/discussion/metallica__5.html No matter how you search for the content on Google, nothing comes up: https://www.google.com/search?q="Metallica+only+played+2+son... DuckDuckGo has it: https://duckduckgo.com/?q="Metallica+only+played+2+songs+fro... I checked the wayback machine and the content has constantly been on that url for over 10 years. This is the first example of an ol…

Anecdotally and perhaps unrelated - has anyone else noticed a decrease in the accuracy and general quality of Google search over the past 2-4 months? They've had to have been utilizing ML to 'improve' searches for some time now, but the quality of the results has decreased suddenly and inexplicably (for me).

2-4 months? Try at least a year. Google search results are now that creamy scum that floats between an industrial wasteland and the tidal flats it was built upon during the changing of the tides.

Re: It seems that Google is forgetting the old web

#142

Post by xvector » Mon, Apr 08, 2019, 4:11 PM UTC

coliveira wrote: post #130

One of the changes that made Google forget the old web is favoring https sites. This is a big benefit to new and commercial web sites because setting up SSL is still a burden for non-comercial publishers.

I feel like LetsEncrypt is a 5-minute burden. Unless I’m being naive - I’ve only used it in personal projects. Thoughts?

Re: It seems that Google is forgetting the old web

#143

Post by rdiddly » Mon, Apr 08, 2019, 4:13 PM UTC

Sounds like somebody is ripe for disruption.

Re: It seems that Google is forgetting the old web

#144

Post by alecdibble » Mon, Apr 08, 2019, 4:17 PM UTC

Pxtl wrote: post #72

SXX wrote: post #45

Personally I have similar experience, but other way around. Every time I try look for anything in Google almost always most of results are from 3-6 years ago unless I specifically specify I want results from last month / year / etc. And I not just talking about technical questions, but all kind of stuff include music, travel information and such. I not even sure when the last time google provide me the link to some n…

I don't think your "3-6 years ago" and "forgetting the old web" are incompatible. I've noticed the same - Google seems to gravitate to results from 2014ish, even when newer information is available, or when I'm searching about an event from far before that time.

I thought I was going crazy with this 2014ish search result dynamic. I almost always have to use date filters to find recent information. Especially when trying to research products, reviews, types of products, etc.

Re: It seems that Google is forgetting the old web

#145

Post by gowld » Mon, Apr 08, 2019, 4:18 PM UTC

addicted wrote: post #99

andrewprock wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The web is fine, and search is fine. It's specifically Google search that's being destroyed by spam. It's odd to put forward the hypothesis that DuckDuckGo is now better at search (aggregation) than Google is at search. But that seems to be where we have landed.

I think it may be a simple consequence of the fact that Google Search is increasingly less of a searching engine and more of an answering engine. I think Google has been explicit about this (I may be wrong, but I seem to remember thinking about this because Google themselves said it). Essentially, I believe, they are no longer concerned about being a way to navigate all the material found on the internet. Instead, th…

Does Google work if my questions is "what's a good article about X" ? I'm willing to modify my search terms to speak Google's language.

Re: It seems that Google is forgetting the old web

#146

Post by ldng » Mon, Apr 08, 2019, 4:19 PM UTC

Liquix wrote: post #104

founderling wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is an example: http://www.gnoosic.com/discussion/metallica__5.html No matter how you search for the content on Google, nothing comes up: https://www.google.com/search?q="Metallica+only+played+2+son... DuckDuckGo has it: https://duckduckgo.com/?q="Metallica+only+played+2+songs+fro... I checked the wayback machine and the content has constantly been on that url for over 10 years. This is the first example of an ol…

Anecdotally and perhaps unrelated - has anyone else noticed a decrease in the accuracy and general quality of Google search over the past 2-4 months? They've had to have been utilizing ML to 'improve' searches for some time now, but the quality of the results has decreased suddenly and inexplicably (for me).

Yes ! This morning I was not finding exactly what I was looking for in ddg and felt back to Google and result were quite noticibly worst.

To me they started spiraling down when they started to give too much power to designers. Form over content is a terrible idea for a search engine ...

Re: It seems that Google is forgetting the old web

#147

Post by gowld » Mon, Apr 08, 2019, 4:21 PM UTC

inetknght wrote: post #7

I have noticed that searching for exact quotes seems to have been broken on Google for a few years. But only minimally broken. And I've had no idea how to reason with it. This article completely corresponds with problems I've encountered with searching for results on StackOverflow or software documentation sites; it's especially perplexing that "site:..." combined with exact quotes does not work for many cases. Googl…

What is your estimate of how much it would cost to respond to every piece of feedback from a >1Billion-user user-base?

Re: It seems that Google is forgetting the old web

#148

Post by Liquix » Mon, Apr 08, 2019, 4:31 PM UTC

wyck wrote: post #105

Liquix wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotally and perhaps unrelated - has anyone else noticed a decrease in the accuracy and general quality of Google search over the past 2-4 months? They've had to have been utilizing ML to 'improve' searches for some time now, but the quality of the results has decreased suddenly and inexplicably (for me).

Yes, i'm having to go several pages deep and even then not finding anything relevant, I've started to use other search engines and reddit to actually find useful info.

Google poured billions into their search engine for two decades to make it better. Now that have a ridiculous amount of money and power, the search results get.... objectively worse. Which brings us to the elephant in the room: what are Google's motives behind this (clearly intentional) change?

Could something as innocent as training a new neural net or testing a buggy version of the algorithm on subsets of users. But it could also be as sinister as driving traffic to those in bed with Google, silencing opposition, or effectively whitewashing the entire internet...

Re: It seems that Google is forgetting the old web

#149

Post by kickscondor » Mon, Apr 08, 2019, 4:35 PM UTC

Crinus wrote: post #118

kickscondor wrote: post #17

While it's become impossible to browse the wider Web with Google, it's getting a bit easier elsewhere. A few helpful search engines: * https://millionshort.com/ * https://wiby.me/ * https://pinboard.in/search/ A recent movement to build personal Yahoo!-style directories: * https://href.cool/ (my own project) * https://indieseek.xyz/ * https://districts.neocities.org/ * https://the.dailywebthing.com/ The above resourc…

Isn't http://curlie.org/ (ex-DMOZ) the most Yahoo!-style-like directory?

For sure - and there are several others like it: illumirate.com, joeant.com, skaffe.com, gimpsy.com, seekon.info, goguides.org, somuch.com.

I'm personally not a fan of directories that try to tackle the _entire_ web - it's just too sprawling. So I tend to not recommend them; you have to drill down pretty deep to get anywhere. I think 'awesome' directories (and Reddit wikis) have proven how well niche directories can work - and so I like to encourage folks to build their own directories that encompass their personal view of the web. They act like those 'little libraries' you see on the roadside or at pubs - but for the web.

Re: It seems that Google is forgetting the old web

#150

Post by aeorgnoieang » Mon, Apr 08, 2019, 4:35 PM UTC

xvector wrote: post #142

coliveira wrote: post #130

One of the changes that made Google forget the old web is favoring https sites. This is a big benefit to new and commercial web sites because setting up SSL is still a burden for non-comercial publishers.

I feel like LetsEncrypt is a 5-minute burden. Unless I’m being naive - I’ve only used it in personal projects. Thoughts?

I'd imagine lots of hosts don't allow users to setup Let's Encrypt so then the obstacle is first migrating to a host that does allow it (or includes direct support for it).