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Ask HN: Those who moved careers from the West to China, what's your experience?

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Re: Ask HN: Those who moved careers from the West to China, what's your experience?

#141

Post by sky_nox »

educationdata wrote: post #55
yibg wrote: post #45

I’ve sort of done the move. If you are not ethnically Chinese and speak the language, there will be a few things to get used to. The degree will depend a bit on where you end up. For example: - pollution can be a big problem. - if Chinese company, work culture can be very different. More top down, longer hours etc. - noisy. Most places you go in big cities you are surrounded by noise. Cars, people, construction. It d…

I would like to add: Even if you are ethnically Chinese and speak the language, don't go back to China unless you really cannot find a decent job in the west. Especially if you are young and educated in the west, here are the things to consider: - It is not very hard to find a STEM job in the west, and the pay is good. - Your parents are healthy now, not much to worry. It's better to get a green card before they get…

The problem is that Asians hit bamboo ceiling when they try to climb the corporate ladder in the west. It's very difficult for them to get into upper management. Google "bamboo ceiling", it's an interesting read.

Re: Ask HN: Those who moved careers from the West to China, what's your experience?

#142

Post by NicoJuicy »

https://github.com/996icu/996.ICU/blob/master/en_US.md

A "996" job refers to an unofficial working pattern (9 am - 9 pm, 6 days a week) that has been gaining more popularity. Serving a company that encourages the "996" working pattern usually means working for at least 60 hours a week.

TLDR; A protest going on right now of developers in China. ICU means Intensive Care Unit.

Re: Ask HN: Those who moved careers from the West to China, what's your experience?

#143

Post by mtw »

sureaboutthis wrote: post #124

My sister-in-law's ex-husband traveled to China for weeks at a time and often. After their divorce, he moved there permanently. Two things happened. Right away, he lost a lot of weight because he didn't like the food. Too many things he would never consider eating but he had to eat something. I don't know if it's the area he was in but he is still too thin today. They divorced because he met a Chinese girl and marrie…

Doesn't really make sense to me. Guy travels to China for weeks and often. After all this, he discovers that he didn't like the food??

It would like someone traveling to the US for weeks and often, decides to relocate and then doesn't like the place because he discovers most people speak English

Re: Ask HN: Those who moved careers from the West to China, what's your experience?

#144

Post by usaar333 »

throwawayhyes wrote: post #20
rlglwx wrote: post #5

To be honest, don’t don’t it. Unless you’re of Chinese descent and speak the language, you won’t be able to advance in most companies. The work culture is alien to most westerners and the benefits to your career are negligible. Mostly depends on what you want out of your career but speaking as someone that lived in China and worked in Chinese tech companies for seven years, including being the first foreign hire for…

I’ll add to this. If you’re ethnically Chinese, can speak Mandarin, and have a desire to move to an executive position, then highly consider it. There won’t be a bamboo ceiling and your assertiveness won’t be seen negatively as aggression [1] 1. https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/05/study-of-...

How well does this apply to people who grew up in China (adept to culture) vs. not (and only might know Mandarin from talking with relatives)?

Re: Ask HN: Those who moved careers from the West to China, what's your experience?

#145

Post by rlglwx »

jaxbot wrote: post #18
rlglwx wrote: post #5

To be honest, don’t don’t it. Unless you’re of Chinese descent and speak the language, you won’t be able to advance in most companies. The work culture is alien to most westerners and the benefits to your career are negligible. Mostly depends on what you want out of your career but speaking as someone that lived in China and worked in Chinese tech companies for seven years, including being the first foreign hire for…

Thanks for the insights, much appreciated! To be clear, are you a westerner who made this move, or a Chinese native? If the former, how did the startup culture compare to the US startup culture? >of Chinese descent and speak the language What about westerns who speak mando? Is it workable or still too much of a culture shock? Is racism abundant?

I am a white guy from the states who speaks Mandarin. It's not really racism per se, it's just more that it's harder to win their trust if you're not one of them to begin with.

The startup culture is similar but the difference is most companies expect you to be putting in OT and weekend hours almost as a default. The idea of burnout prevention hasn't caught on, at least in my experience.

Also the dev practices are different as well, things that won't translate well if you'd like to bring your skills back.

Re: Ask HN: Those who moved careers from the West to China, what's your experience?

#146

Post by eznoonze »

walrus01 wrote: post #63
driverdan wrote: post #8

Why would anyone willingly move to an authoritarian dictatorship?

An authoritarian dictatorship where the air pollution and other environmental pollution (heavy metals, PCBs, food supply chain chemical/pesticide contamination) will probably knock years off your life expectancy. From the point of view of somebody who lives in a place with clear air and a decent paying job, I would require significant extra compensation to move my residence to a place with air pollution on the level…

Good for you! You live in a place where you can offload your pollution to other poor countries so you can enjoy your clean air and water. Congrats!

Re: Ask HN: Those who moved careers from the West to China, what's your experience?

#147

Post by coolspot »

educationdata wrote: post #105
HillaryBriss wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> get a green card before they get old parent age and green card -- how do these two things relate to each other?

If your parents get old and sick, you have to go back to your home country to visit them more frequently. It is much better to have a green card. You don't want to worry about your visa, your job security, and your parents' health at the same time.

Also after 5 years on the GC you will get naturalized and can get a GC to your parents really quick.

Re: Ask HN: Those who moved careers from the West to China, what's your experience?

#148

Post by avinium »

I can't speak for "founder/tech startup" scene in China, but I did spend 4 years as a manager in the property development arm of a large foreign retailer.

1) As far as I know, the overpaid expat days are over. A lot of Chinese have returned from long stints overseas, and they're bringing that experience back with them. If you want a good position, now you actually need to offer something unique.

2) It's not impossible, but you will struggle if you can't speak Chinese. It's funny how this working generation were all forced to learn English at school, but many of them can barely string a few words together. Depends on your industry, of course.

3) Most of your business interactions will be unpleasant. Chinese companies will lie, cheat, steal, and anything they can to sell you down the river. Most of your time will be spent watching your back and trying not to get screwed. Same goes for employees.

4) The pollution is horrible, and one of the main reasons why so many people left at the same time I did.

5) Managing teams can be a nightmare. Chinese employees love empire building, and their answer to any problem is "you need to give me more people".

6) Decisions are very much top-down, and noone wants to second-guess the boss. This means companies are constantly lurching from long periods of inaction (waiting for the CEO/ Chairman to make a decision) to mad sprints/crunch time (once they make a decision and insist that it be carried out in a ridiculous timeframe).

7) "Face-time" is very much a thing. Many employees are working 12 hour days, but most of that is spent on WeChat/mobile games/etc.

In short, would I recommend someone do it? Yes - if you can speak Chinese, have no kids and can swing a well-paid, time-limited posting (say 2 years) with your existing company.

It's an eye-opening experience and really makes you value things that you take for granted in the West.

Re: Ask HN: Those who moved careers from the West to China, what's your experience?

#149

Post by wolco »

bdamm wrote: post #140
wolco wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Canadian we can only wish to have some of the freedoms the US offers. Property ownership is a right in America but in Canada it's a suggestion. In America you have freedom of speech in Canada you don't have that right but no one will both you practice. Think Canada could do better as the world's police force? Would have Canada handled 911 differently? Would Canada have invaded iraq? Would the middle east be bett…

It is not clear to me that US foreign policy has been good for the Middle East.

It should be clear. For it to be clear you need to see what the other timeline looks like. Perhaps war on the scale that pulls in the rest of the world.

Regional powers are in check. Iran or Iraq were trying to get the bomb. Pakistan and India were on the edge of dropping a bomb on each other. Israel has been trying to get someone to attack Iran.

Keeping warlords in power is easy but longterm it works against your interests. Having a free Iraq has changed the region. It has given voice to oppressed people. It probably has caused Turkey uproar over the Kurds in Turkey wanting to join with the Iraq Kurds. But that is to be expected.. each problem solved will reveal two more.

Re: Ask HN: Those who moved careers from the West to China, what's your experience?

#150

Post by seveneightn9ne »

sealthedeal wrote: post #69
zukunftsalick wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I know you could potentially earn 180k as a junior per year but then you potentially have to live in the US.

180k as a junior... no way

If you're including RSUs in that number, sure
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