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Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

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Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#141

Post by dtech »

ashelmire wrote: post #72
ckdarby wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the gist found the article: http://www.newsguild.org/mediaguild3/software-company-learns... $775k for 15 people especially SF based I wouldn't exactly call that a large cash settlement considering what happened, rep damage, time to find new work, etc. Just had expectations of at least a year salary per person.

> The 15 former employees of Lanetix comprised the firm’s entire non-management programming staff. Doesn't this kill a company?

It must have set them back months, if not years. Strange culture where unionization is viewed as a worse alternative than letting go of the majority of your technical know-how.

Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#142

Post by geofft »

czbond wrote: post #71
bwestergard wrote: post #9

This is fantastic news. I'm one of the software engineers who was fired for organizing a union at a SF/DC based startup last year. The National Labor Relations Board found in our favor and we won a large cash settlement. But what we wanted was a union. Seeing others pick up the torch is extremely gratifying. Below are some links to news coverage of our case. https://gist.github.com/bwestergard/a77744dc6f3095fd3fb769d…

Two questions: Why are tech company staff wanting to unionize? For the most part, aren't tech staff reasonably to well paid - with good working conditions and moderate hour expectations (say 40-50)? Management has the right at a workplace to make any decisions, whether someone in non-management sees fit. Can't people who are frustrated with the company just go pursue a position elsewhere?

> Management has the right at a workplace to make any decisions, whether someone in non-management sees fit.

What?

There is no constitutional right for management to make decisions. Management are people with certain forms of influence over the company; workers are other people with other forms of influence over the company.

The only way in which there's a "right" is "might makes right" - that management, when they want to make a decision, can force that decision to happen, and workers can't. The point of a union is to change this calculus. If the workers say, do what we want or we'll leave, there's no question of whether they have the "right" to say that. They have the power. The question is whether it's socially acceptable for workers to say they have that power.

Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#143

Post by eqdw »

maxxxxx wrote: post #26
duxup wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I've described my experience with American unions it I hear a lot for Europeans who report their unions are far different than my experience. The American union tradition / behavior seems quite different than what I hear about elsewhere. I'm interested in the European systems, but very very wary of the US systems. Too many US unions are really just bureaucracies on their own, emphasize seniority for pay, advance…

From my experience the US workplace is much more hostile both ways. Either the employer will screw over the employees or the union will try screw the employer. At least in Germany it'a little more collaborative partially because of laws that give employees some say how the company is run.

It's not hostile, it's professional. I advocate for my interests, you advocate for your interests, and we negotiate to find out a compromise that works for both of us. During this process, I do not worry about your interests (that's your job), and you do not worry about mine. We trust each other to take responsibility for our own interests and proceed accordingly.

I can understand why this would seem hostile to someone who isn't acculturated to it, but I don't find it hostile at all. I find it _honest_. The other side isn't pretending to care about me, and they aren't making hamfisted attempts to look out for my interests in ways that I don't like but they think I do (or should).

Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#144

Post by asark »

eqdw wrote: post #132
asark wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

50's too much and 40 should include an hour of breaks. Noncompetes and very broad claims of inventions and copyright by employers need serious push-back until they're rare or illegal, and organized labor can do that. Also it'd be nice if some of the more powerful workers here could organize and help lobby for things like parental leave and minimum vacation for all workers, including those without so much clout.

Non-competes are illegal in California. If your contract contains one, the non-compete clause is null and void

One down, 49 to go, I guess. (probably there are a few other states where they're illegal, but it's far from all of them)

EDIT: and there's still the "if you write a novel in your free time on your own hardware we can try to claim it if we feel like it" clauses that are so common.

Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#145

Post by asdff »

the_bear wrote: post #28

Is anyone aware of an example where (a) a really small company unionized and/or (b) a workforce unionized without any real demands? I run a 17 person company and I've heard employees mention that they think all companies should be unionized even if there aren't currently any problems that the union would seek to address. I strongly support the big tech companies unionizing and so it would be hypocritical of me to be…

It's a very important mechanism to have even if you have 2 employees. Being able to collectively bargain empowers workers at companies at any size, and mitigates retaliation that could happen to individual workers who attempt to bring up grievances.

Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#146

Post by StudentStuff »

mlillie wrote: post #134
duxup wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm highly skeptical of US style unions, but if any tech industry seems to need unions... it's the game industry.

How would you qualify US style vs non-US style unions? The prevalence of business unionism here?

Most US unions have been heavily neutered and de-politicized, and rarely have the ability to force management to change course. Outside the US, its not uncommon for unions to own a good share of the company, holding board seats which let it affect who manages the company, and in some cases with the business becoming entirely worker owned.

Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#147

Post by robocat »

diminoten wrote: post #55
ForHackernews wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not? The US film industry is mostly unionized, and there's tons of people who love movies, too.

The supply of jobs is much lower in the games industry relative to the demand.

And there are way more actors than acting jobs.

Yet they have the SAG-AFTRA union which had a strike to force better working conditions from games companies.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016–17_video_game_voice_act...

Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#148

Post by longerthoughts »

duado wrote: post #102
czbond wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two questions: Why are tech company staff wanting to unionize? For the most part, aren't tech staff reasonably to well paid - with good working conditions and moderate hour expectations (say 40-50)? Management has the right at a workplace to make any decisions, whether someone in non-management sees fit. Can't people who are frustrated with the company just go pursue a position elsewhere?

Why not take power that is available to you? Management certainly exercises every bit of power that they are able to. The relationship between a company's stockholders and a company's employees is part competitive and part collaborative. Ignore either at your own peril.

>Why not take power that is available to you?

I see your point but at the same time this can create an adversarial dynamic between managers and junior employees, which is toxic even if junior employees get what they want.

>Management certainly exercises every bit of power that they are able to.

I'm a manager and my proudest moments have been those of restraint, not force. Regardless of whether or not unions can and should be formed, organizations with employees feeling compelled to unionize should be hiring better managers.

Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#149

Post by geofft »

segmondy wrote: post #111
czbond wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two questions: Why are tech company staff wanting to unionize? For the most part, aren't tech staff reasonably to well paid - with good working conditions and moderate hour expectations (say 40-50)? Management has the right at a workplace to make any decisions, whether someone in non-management sees fit. Can't people who are frustrated with the company just go pursue a position elsewhere?

Not a popular opinion, but these are usually non CS types that have flooded the fields later due to money. Not very skilled, but very entitled. The sense of entitlement is very ridiculous these days. I see folks outside the Bay asking why shouldn't they get paid the same as Bay area folks, when they want to remote from somewhere that has 1/3rd the cost of living. Or people outside the country with 1/10th the cost of…

> I see folks outside the Bay asking why shouldn't they get paid the same as Bay area folks, when they want to remote from somewhere that has 1/3rd the cost of living.

Well, why shouldn't they? It's not like the company magically has more money available when they hire a non-remote employee, is it?

Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#150

Post by sethammons »

soheil wrote: post #77

kinda ironic, a platform that relies on a community of people and donors and leans on the socialist side of the spectrum is hit by a socialist leaning ideology.

That's not irony. Irony is when something happens that is explicitly not expected to happen.
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