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To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

nationalgeographic.com

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Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#141

Post by falcolas »

fbonetti wrote: post #100
falcolas wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> prevents owners of property from doing what they want As someone who has, in the past, been a neighbor to an unofficial junkyard (unzoned land), and as a person who currently only has houses for neighbors (zoned) thank god people can't do whatever they want.

There’s a middle ground between living next to a landfill and living a city that has been so completely ossified by zoning that no new housing can be built.

Sure, but that middle ground is not, as the OP suggested, no zoning whatsoever.

Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#142

Post by at-fates-hands »

mtberatwork wrote: post #9
Tepix wrote: post #2

Not exactly rocket science. Many cities around the world have figured it out already. To me it seems that the US went to the other extreme and is only slowly turning around. I remember reading "Das neue Universum"² in the early 80s where they proposed large skyscrapers connected by tubes. No cars in sight. Oh and don't miss "Das Neue Universum Volume 84 (1967)": http://klausbuergle.de/buergle_verkehr1.htm - Click on…

> the US went to the other extreme and is only slowly turning around. US car manufacturers are doubling down on large trucks and SUVs and the current administration continues to thwart progress on tackling climate change and other societal concerns. I would say the US, at least on a macro level, is still on the "other extreme" path.

Actually its a cycle.

The cost of gas goes up, and people scramble to get more fuel efficient cars. Gas does down and they want larger utility vehicles.

Toyota made out like crazy when gas prices went through the roof in the early 2000's. They were already manufacturing the Prius and once gas prices went over $3-$4/gallon, people suddenly started buying motorcycles, started biking more and started buying Prius' in droves.

Now that gas has stabilized for the most part to around $2.20/gallon, you're seeing more people not really care either way and I have friends who have sold their Prius' to get more snow friendly vehicles like a Subaru or a Toyota AWD SUV.

Their decisions are based nothing on social concerns, it's all about how expensive it is to own the cars they currently have. Make fuel expensive and its painful to own a large SUV and they'll switch. When fuel is cheap and they're going to buy whatever suit their needs.

Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#143

Post by sandworm101 »

betandr wrote: post #71

We really do have to radically re-think our cities but the biggest issues aren't going to be practical but emotional. In London parents drive their children around in 4x4s, knowing that their vehicle causes the pollution that is affecting their own children's health. I'm not sure how you even start to get around that but to some extent you will never persuade everybody to reduce their damaging behaviour. You need to…

>> You need to enable people to travel in non-damaging ways; cycling and walking primary.

And EVs? It will be very hard to convince anyone to get out of their cars when those cars are, potentially, less polluting than the available public transport options.

This also isn't just about commuting and pollution. There are a multitude of cultural reasons people use cars. Security is at the top of the list, the ability to be in your own locked box. You won't get people out of their cars until they are confidant in their physical security. Those parents driving their kids to work are constantly told that their kids are in danger and it is their duty as parents to maximize their children's individualized safety over all other concerns. Breaking that mindset requires far more than explaining to them why buses might be slightly faster than cars.

Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#144

Post by rootusrootus »

fbonetti wrote: post #100
falcolas wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> prevents owners of property from doing what they want As someone who has, in the past, been a neighbor to an unofficial junkyard (unzoned land), and as a person who currently only has houses for neighbors (zoned) thank god people can't do whatever they want.

There’s a middle ground between living next to a landfill and living a city that has been so completely ossified by zoning that no new housing can be built.

That middle ground would be a responsive government that well represents the desires of it's citizens.

Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#145

Post by volkl48 »

naravara wrote: post #6
Tepix wrote: post #2

Not exactly rocket science. Many cities around the world have figured it out already. To me it seems that the US went to the other extreme and is only slowly turning around. I remember reading "Das neue Universum"² in the early 80s where they proposed large skyscrapers connected by tubes. No cars in sight. Oh and don't miss "Das Neue Universum Volume 84 (1967)": http://klausbuergle.de/buergle_verkehr1.htm - Click on…

Many cities in the OECD maybe. Lots of cities in Africa and Asia are going with the American model of car dependent sprawl and it’s completely untenable. My childhood home of Bangalore has become a nightmare.

Many of those places you are referring to aren't "building car dependent sprawl", they're just growing far faster than their planning/infrastructure can keep up with and slums are spreading in every direction.

They may be sprawling out (as is inherently going to happen when you build single-level unplanned structures), but they're certainly not designed for a car any more than they are for transit.

Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#146

Post by rootusrootus »

Shivetya wrote: post #40

Cars are not the cause of the issue with cities, cars are symptom of bad zoning and regulation which more times than not prevents owners of property from doing what they want. when every new building requires effectively bring special interest groups, politicians, regulatory boards, and unions, their due is it a surprise cities are not getting better. they are serving a politically connected elite, not the people who…

People who merely want to live somewhere don't yet have a voice in how that place is governed. This is good. Gov't should represent the interests of the citizens in it's jurisdiction.

Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#148

Post by burlesona »

dkural wrote: post #89
betandr wrote: post #71

We really do have to radically re-think our cities but the biggest issues aren't going to be practical but emotional. In London parents drive their children around in 4x4s, knowing that their vehicle causes the pollution that is affecting their own children's health. I'm not sure how you even start to get around that but to some extent you will never persuade everybody to reduce their damaging behaviour. You need to…

The US is an extreme precisely due to these social and emotional reasons. It's shocking to me how this article fails to mention even once that a lot of post WWII suburbanization was due to white flight. The article states: "Millions of soldiers had come home from World War II to overcrowded, run-down cities; their new families needed a place to live." "Overcrowded, run-down": who all of a sudden "overcrowded" these c…

Even more basic than that, zoning and development regulation have strongly - in many cases explicitly - racist origins. For example many the first zoning laws in SF were designed to push back against Chinese immigration.

Those same tools have been used to the same effect, and strengthened, for generations. Yet for all the calls for social justice in society now, I almost never hear people calling for the end of zoning, when it may be the greatest perpetrator and enforcer of inequality today. In the Bay Area, zoning is the saw that has cut the bottom off the economic ladder. It’s surprising to me that more people don’t understand that intuitively, but alas.

Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#150

Post by darepublic »

rootusrootus wrote: post #140
makerofspoons wrote: post #60

If our species is to survive this century we have to get out of our cars. There is no way to sustainably build billions of electric cars- we need to consider that our existing ICE fleet needs to simply be retired and not replaced. Cars are one of the ultimate symbols of the consumption that needs to end if we are to address climate change. Between the asphalt and concrete needed to build infrastructure for them to th…

Any solution which requires people to give up convenience in the name of saving the environment is dead on arrival. This is human nature, we have never before managed to conserve our way out of a problem, we innovate our way out of it or we will die trying.

I wonder if we can get people out of cars unless cities themselves are completely redesigned. We committed ourselves to a harmful design pattern but unfortunately everyone is heavily invested in it. Need to have a city design that will work, and then draw up a series of implementation steps to move existing cities to the new design. Would require a ton of central planning/control though, doubtful we could pull it off unless things got drastically worse to motivate people.
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