The difference between ‘broke’ and ‘poor’ • Hacker News Board

Re: The difference between ‘broke’ and ‘poor’

#141

Post by thow16161 » Sat, Mar 16, 2019, 7:37 PM UTC

thow16161 wrote: post #132

johnminter wrote: post #112

This is an important distinction. CBS reports [1] that a $500 emergency expense would put most Americans in debt. Our consumer-focused economy with easy credit lures people into purchases that they cannot afford. Many spend without careful thought and purchase homes, electronic devices, automobiles, and college educations that they cannot afford to repay. My wife and I had little savings when I got out of graduate sc…

Any unexpected expense can knock you down when you're on the edge. Unexpected expenses are how people become homeless. I am friends with a camgirl who is a prime example of this. In her case, she made a go of full-time camming, and thought she was doing well. What she didn't understand is that the site she worked for paid her as a contractor and withheld nothing. She never thought much about taxes, and all her previo…

That reminds me: Does anybody know of any US crowdfunding sites that are not hostile to sex workers? That seems unlikely after FOSTA, but it does not hurt to ask, and I figure this would be the place to do it.

Re: The difference between ‘broke’ and ‘poor’

#142

Post by nubbins » Sat, Mar 16, 2019, 7:38 PM UTC

0815test wrote: post #63

xeromal wrote: post #2

Poverty especially sucks when you're all alone like it seems this person was. Where I grew up, most of the people were poor, but we had rich lives for the most part. Lots of family dinners and outings. The people with more would let you take the leftovers home. You can't really train this and we all definitely need a social safety net, but I do think our closed off society prevents us from helping each other too.

I'd even argue that "relative" poverty at least (i.e. once one escapes actual, severe deprivation, which is mostly a factor in underdeveloped countries but not entirely unknown in the West, either) is all about the "being alone" factor. The best "anti-poverty" policy, once material abundance is achieved (and a UBI can help with that) is to promote social inclusion and to strenghten institutions that provide social ca…

A lot of conservatives see the value in private arrangements (ie social capital) over public programs certainly, but I think their pro big business policies and suburbanization, inequality etc drive social atomization at least as much as the lefts policies do. Its a complicated problem and as long as we remain deeply commited to economic growth and individualism its hard for me to see how we can solve it.

Re: The difference between ‘broke’ and ‘poor’

#143

Post by pertymcpert » Sat, Mar 16, 2019, 7:41 PM UTC

WoodenChair wrote: post #120

loblollyboy wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly - I’m from upper middle class and while this meant I was lucky enough to go back home when unemployed, all my peers were just career oriented and it’s very lonely to be ‘a loser’ - I recently moved in w some old coworkers/friends in a diff city who are from a diff socioeconomic background. At first they just let me stay in the apt, now I make more than them (though not a lot). We share like family and look af…

I’m surprised you would even think your experience is comparable enough to the person in the original article to post in this thread. She was sick, had a disabled child, and no safety net. It sounds like you were single, healthy, with no dependents and an upper middle class family as a safety net. Perhaps there are other hardships you didn’t explain? How is your anecdote relevant to a discussion surrounding the issue…

How is this kind of narrow minded comment allowed on HN mods?

Re: The difference between ‘broke’ and ‘poor’

#144

Post by toomuchtodo » Sat, Mar 16, 2019, 7:41 PM UTC

david-gpu wrote: post #134

toomuchtodo wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We all have to do our part to extend safety nets to those in our spheres of influence. I have done very well in life, mostly through what I attribute to luck and being at the right place at the right time. In return, I treat checking in and providing a helping hand (temporary housing, an extra line on my cellphone plan, or in some cases plain old cash) to extended family, friends, and others I encounter as a second j…

> We all have to do our part to extend safety nets to those in our spheres of influence ...or we can collect taxes and provide goods and services to those that need it the most, even when they are not lucky enough to be in the "sphere of influence" of somebody that is (a) well-off and (b) willing to share their wealth with them.

I agree entirely. But besides run for office (soon) and maxing out my FEC contribution limits (which I already do) to candidates who support policies that align with what you mentioned, this is the only alternative I can suggest. Tactical short term suffering reduction, strategic long term suffering reduction.

Through both ideas and actions, you scale a compassionate society. A better tomorrow will hopefully arrive, but do what you can today with what you have.

Re: The difference between ‘broke’ and ‘poor’

#145

Post by toomuchtodo » Sat, Mar 16, 2019, 7:44 PM UTC

jamiek88 wrote: post #78

toomuchtodo wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We all have to do our part to extend safety nets to those in our spheres of influence. I have done very well in life, mostly through what I attribute to luck and being at the right place at the right time. In return, I treat checking in and providing a helping hand (temporary housing, an extra line on my cellphone plan, or in some cases plain old cash) to extended family, friends, and others I encounter as a second j…

Wow. You’ve really made me think.

I hope it helps. It has helped me immensely.

Re: The difference between ‘broke’ and ‘poor’

#146

Post by s_y_n_t_a_x » Sat, Mar 16, 2019, 7:48 PM UTC

13415 wrote: post #76

hopler wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's common everywhere I've traveled in USA to use "poor" to mean unable to afford something. That's the dictionary definition of the word.

Not really. Cambridge Dictionary: 1. having little money and/or few possessions 2. to have very little of a particular substance or quality Google: 1. lacking sufficient money to live at a standard considered comfortable or normal in a society 2. of a low or inferior standard or quality Dictionary.com: 1.having little or no money, goods, or other means of support: a poor family living on welfare. 2. Law. dependent up…

Cambridge 2, Google 2, Dictionary 5.

Having too little of quantity of something (money) to do X (go out, renovate, travel, etc).

Re: The difference between ‘broke’ and ‘poor’

#147

Post by coldtea » Sat, Mar 16, 2019, 8:11 PM UTC

malvosenior wrote: post #73

coldtea wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're so well paid that you don't get tax breaks, and you are forced to help poor people through taxes and insurance premiums? Sounds like a good situation to be in...

It's not. I'd rather support my family than someone else's.

How about society gave you nothing then, and left you to live like an animal?

Not in a city -- because cities are established and built collectively, with infrastructure, and roads, and so on. Not allowed to use and own money, because that's a public good. Not allowed to have a citizenship (because a country is about people working together). No protection from thugs (because the police is a social good), and so on?

Does it sound enticing?

Re: The difference between ‘broke’ and ‘poor’

#148

Post by mhh__ » Sat, Mar 16, 2019, 8:11 PM UTC

chimi wrote: post #34

mhh__ wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Guardian isn't run like most newspapers

Clearly. A full page piece on a semantic argument. Most newspapers don't waste our time like that. There's nothing of value in that article.

Ignoring that (in the UK) the Guardian is probably influential newspaper of the last few years (Breaking large stories), most do.

Newspapers can't just sell news anymore, it's not profitable.

Besides, do you not try and expose yourself to opposing views? Maybe not applicable here, but opinion pieces are important.

Re: The difference between ‘broke’ and ‘poor’

#149

Post by Consultant32452 » Sat, Mar 16, 2019, 8:14 PM UTC

xeromal wrote: post #2

Poverty especially sucks when you're all alone like it seems this person was. Where I grew up, most of the people were poor, but we had rich lives for the most part. Lots of family dinners and outings. The people with more would let you take the leftovers home. You can't really train this and we all definitely need a social safety net, but I do think our closed off society prevents us from helping each other too.

Those people you're talking about, your friends, neighbors, and family used to be what we were referring to when we talked about the social safety net. Now we mean govt programs. I'm not saying it's a causation, but somehow we gained the govt safety net and lost the old social one. I think we're all really missing out on something great and I don't know if we can ever get it back.

Re: The difference between ‘broke’ and ‘poor’

#150

Post by malvosenior » Sat, Mar 16, 2019, 8:26 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #147

malvosenior wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not. I'd rather support my family than someone else's.

How about society gave you nothing then, and left you to live like an animal? Not in a city -- because cities are established and built collectively, with infrastructure, and roads, and so on. Not allowed to use and own money, because that's a public good. Not allowed to have a citizenship (because a country is about people working together). No protection from thugs (because the police is a social good), and so on?…

Things aren’t as black and white as that. There’s a difference between paying a reasonable amount of taxes and having everyone share some of the burden versus a lawless Mad Max style society. The current system is setup to punish the group that I (and probably a lot of developers) belong to. We pay a huge portion of our income in taxes and for me at least, an additional massive chunk of income to insurance post-ACA. Poor people get healthcare and many other things for free. Rich people mostly pay 15% capital gains tax. If you’re in the middle class, the screws come out right as you start succeeding. There’s a massive structural push to keep middle class people in the middle class and I don’t think that’s fair.