Google Hardware makes cuts to laptop and tablet development, cancels products • Hacker News Board

Re: Google Hardware makes cuts to laptop and tablet development, cancels products

#141

Post by robocat » Wed, Mar 13, 2019, 10:00 PM UTC

turbinerneiter wrote: post #127

robocat wrote: post #87

Please build me a Linux laptop for software engineering, Google. For engineers only. No software support beyond ensuring the BIOS and the drivers work and are updated. I hate Dell, but I got a Dell XPS 15 because it was the only laptop I knew would: boot Linux reliably; last two Ubuntu LTS upgrades (4 years); have a high spec (i9 etc); and was reasonably priced (Apple tax was 50% higher for worse hardware). Is it imp…

Dell literally makes that laptop in the form of the developer editions. I had one and it was great. I have a Lenovo now and it sucks (work).

They make the XPS 13" in a developer edition, but literally Dell do not make an XPS 15" developer edition model. I prefer a slightly bigger screen when working while travelling (in fact I would probably go for a 17" if it only cost an extra 0.5kg).

You can get the Precision 15" with Linux. However I was quoted a price 2 times as much as the XPS 15 with a lower spec, less community support, and I was quoted it with 16.04 installed in Jan 2019 (presumably only 16.04 officially supported? Hard to get information when we are only a small business).

https://liliputing.com/2018/05/dell-introduces-2018-precisio...

Re: Google Hardware makes cuts to laptop and tablet development, cancels products

#142

Post by dragonwriter » Wed, Mar 13, 2019, 10:01 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #98

dragonwriter wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How would Android be called a successful strategy? The monopoly that Apple does not have on smartphones as a whole, and the consequent constraints on its ability to dictate the functionality of the mobile web, to capture mobile web and app advertising revenue, etc. That 's the success of Android.

Apple would never have had a monopoly selling $700 phones and Apple would never sell low margin $225 phones (the average selling price of Android phone). If anything MS would have been more successful.

> Apple would never have had a monopoly selling $700 phones and Apple would never sell low margin $225 phones (the average selling price of Android phone). If anything MS would have been more successful.

A duopoly between two non-Google vendors (especially if they were effectively two monopolies in distinct market segments) would scarcely have been better for Google than a non-Google monopoly, so even if a low-end smartphone market existed and was substantial without Android, and your perception above in regard to Apple staying out of it without Android is correct, that doesn't materially change the nature of the success of Android for Google.

Re: Google Hardware makes cuts to laptop and tablet development, cancels products

#143

Post by netinstructions » Wed, Mar 13, 2019, 10:03 PM UTC

ralmidani wrote: post #137

mav3rick wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chrome OS comes with Linux VMs now. You can do most dev work with it

Do you have to enable developer mode, and if so, does it stay enabled between boots?

No, as I understand it, that was the "old way" of doing it. The "new way" (which I think is called Project Crostini) is much smoother.

I got a Pixelbook a couple months ago and it was as simple as going into the Chrome OS settings, clicking the button to enable Linux support, and then it sets you up with a terminal to Linux. I've had no issue accessing the Linux environment / apps between boots.

Re: Google Hardware makes cuts to laptop and tablet development, cancels products

#144

Post by curry-castaway » Wed, Mar 13, 2019, 10:13 PM UTC

ahmedalsudani wrote: post #131

robocat wrote: post #87

Please build me a Linux laptop for software engineering, Google. For engineers only. No software support beyond ensuring the BIOS and the drivers work and are updated. I hate Dell, but I got a Dell XPS 15 because it was the only laptop I knew would: boot Linux reliably; last two Ubuntu LTS upgrades (4 years); have a high spec (i9 etc); and was reasonably priced (Apple tax was 50% higher for worse hardware). Is it imp…

If you don't like Dell, three options are Lenovo, Purism, and System76. I'm personally quite happy with my thinkpad.

Do any of these options have a case that feels sturdy? It seems a little silly describing it this way, but one of the reasons I keep coming back to macbooks is the aluminum case. I want good specs, but my lizard brain also wants a laptop which doesn't feel like a flimsy plastic toy.

Re: Google Hardware makes cuts to laptop and tablet development, cancels products

#145

Post by robocat » Wed, Mar 13, 2019, 10:16 PM UTC

cletus wrote: post #95

robocat wrote: post #87

Please build me a Linux laptop for software engineering, Google. For engineers only. No software support beyond ensuring the BIOS and the drivers work and are updated. I hate Dell, but I got a Dell XPS 15 because it was the only laptop I knew would: boot Linux reliably; last two Ubuntu LTS upgrades (4 years); have a high spec (i9 etc); and was reasonably priced (Apple tax was 50% higher for worse hardware). Is it imp…

I'm not sure I understand what your issue with the Dell is. I mean I have a Dell XPS 15. It's... fine, I guess. As for the so-called "Apple tax", I just don't buy into this. I mean I miss the glory days of the 2011-2012 Macbook Airs. These were so cheaply priced they destroyed the competition because no one could produce a similar spec laptop at that price point. But then the numbers men decided dropping the average…

> I guarantee you that if Google produced the laptop that you and 22 other people would buy you'd hear nothing but complaints about it.

Counterpoint: I know plenty of happy developers that own multiple Nexus and Pixel products, without bagging them. Engineers want good hardware and many are willing to pay for quality.

> As for the so-called "Apple tax"

For as close to equivalent as I could get (specification, reliability, etc) the equivalent Apple cost 50% more than the XPS 15. Paying 50% extra for an OS I don't need makes no sense for my situation. Paying for an unused Windows license for the XPS was unavoidable (I have our own licenses for the Windows VMs we need for testing).

> It's clearly not trivial [to make a laptop better than Dell or Apple]

The Google hardware I have experienced has mostly impressed me (even if third party, they have mostly enforced quality constraints). Although I have owned a Nexus with a design flaw, I would consider buying a Pixel (although at present I find the Nokia gives me better bang for my hard earned buck).

Re: Google Hardware makes cuts to laptop and tablet development, cancels products

#146

Post by Zenst » Wed, Mar 13, 2019, 10:17 PM UTC

robocat wrote: post #87

Please build me a Linux laptop for software engineering, Google. For engineers only. No software support beyond ensuring the BIOS and the drivers work and are updated. I hate Dell, but I got a Dell XPS 15 because it was the only laptop I knew would: boot Linux reliably; last two Ubuntu LTS upgrades (4 years); have a high spec (i9 etc); and was reasonably priced (Apple tax was 50% higher for worse hardware). Is it imp…

Alas whilst there are many who crave such a device, as a market, it is still niche for a sole target. Dell, offer you the option of Linux, more so, drivers. Yet, they still offer the laptop for the windows end user at the other end of the spectrum. That end also has larger market.

For me, wouldn't it be great if laptop shells had a universal connector you could plug the mainboard of choice via an edge connector, be that ARM, X86, MIPS,????. Certainly make laptops more upgradable and save upon production costs with a standard laptop mainboard form factor.

Re: Google Hardware makes cuts to laptop and tablet development, cancels products

#147

Post by curry-castaway » Wed, Mar 13, 2019, 10:18 PM UTC

snazz wrote: post #100

robocat wrote: post #87

Please build me a Linux laptop for software engineering, Google. For engineers only. No software support beyond ensuring the BIOS and the drivers work and are updated. I hate Dell, but I got a Dell XPS 15 because it was the only laptop I knew would: boot Linux reliably; last two Ubuntu LTS upgrades (4 years); have a high spec (i9 etc); and was reasonably priced (Apple tax was 50% higher for worse hardware). Is it imp…

Do you need a fast laptop? No one I know actually does (although I’m sure some people do). Text editing and web browsing don’t require much horsepower. In my opinion, compiling shouldn’t happen on a laptop in the first place: this is why one of my friends has a mega-sized server than he just runs builds and trains ML models on. An old laptop will run any Linux distro flawlessly and be equally snappy (as in, low-laten…

> one of my friends has a mega-sized server than he just runs builds and trains ML models on

I built my first desktop computer to do this recently. I can definitely recommend it, even for local server development. It's nice to be able to have a version of a codebase running on the remote machine so my local laptop stays cool while I'm testing.

Re: Google Hardware makes cuts to laptop and tablet development, cancels products

#148

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Mar 13, 2019, 10:24 PM UTC

robocat wrote: post #87

Please build me a Linux laptop for software engineering, Google. For engineers only. No software support beyond ensuring the BIOS and the drivers work and are updated. I hate Dell, but I got a Dell XPS 15 because it was the only laptop I knew would: boot Linux reliably; last two Ubuntu LTS upgrades (4 years); have a high spec (i9 etc); and was reasonably priced (Apple tax was 50% higher for worse hardware). Is it imp…

[deleted]

Re: Google Hardware makes cuts to laptop and tablet development, cancels products

#149

Post by bproven » Wed, Mar 13, 2019, 10:27 PM UTC

robocat wrote: post #87

Please build me a Linux laptop for software engineering, Google. For engineers only. No software support beyond ensuring the BIOS and the drivers work and are updated. I hate Dell, but I got a Dell XPS 15 because it was the only laptop I knew would: boot Linux reliably; last two Ubuntu LTS upgrades (4 years); have a high spec (i9 etc); and was reasonably priced (Apple tax was 50% higher for worse hardware). Is it imp…

IMO the best (or one of the best) for Linux :

Thinkpad Carbon X1 6th gen (or 7th now?)

I only wish it was sold without Windows so I can save $30-40 on the win license.

Other than that, freaking perfect laptop that rivals a macbook (I will admit that the mac trackpad is slightly better... but this one is pretty damn good)

Re: Google Hardware makes cuts to laptop and tablet development, cancels products

#150

Post by robocat » Wed, Mar 13, 2019, 10:28 PM UTC

snazz wrote: post #100

robocat wrote: post #87

Please build me a Linux laptop for software engineering, Google. For engineers only. No software support beyond ensuring the BIOS and the drivers work and are updated. I hate Dell, but I got a Dell XPS 15 because it was the only laptop I knew would: boot Linux reliably; last two Ubuntu LTS upgrades (4 years); have a high spec (i9 etc); and was reasonably priced (Apple tax was 50% higher for worse hardware). Is it imp…

Do you need a fast laptop? No one I know actually does (although I’m sure some people do). Text editing and web browsing don’t require much horsepower. In my opinion, compiling shouldn’t happen on a laptop in the first place: this is why one of my friends has a mega-sized server than he just runs builds and trains ML models on. An old laptop will run any Linux distro flawlessly and be equally snappy (as in, low-laten…

It is simply that my time is expensive.

For the $1000 it costs for a faster laptop, work gets many thousands of dollars back due to more efficient development.

I could waste time optimising disk space, waiting for compiles (the developer tools we use need single-core CPU performance), enchancing the performance of development tools, waiting for VMs to boot, waiting for Windows VM to update, waste time shutting down that VM I am not currently using. Yes, I could waste time switching to other tasks while I am waiting for whatever it is I am waiting for.

I travel, and while travelling work gets some development time out of me because it is a laptop and not a workstation. A terminal is no use when I am in an area with poor cellular data connectivity (e.g. most planes).

Work definitely wins on this whole equation.