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Online activists are silencing us, scientists say

reuters.com

141–150 of 421 posts

Re: Online activists are silencing us, scientists say

#141
I’m not sure there is a fix here. Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, et al can be used as powerful tools to conduct organized harassment and coordinated bullying. And the bullying is remarkably visible and thus easy to report on so we also hear about it all the time.

And yet this is ultimately just normal human behavior, amplified. There have always been crackpots who lead frustrated and scared people into mob behavior of blaming some specific opinion or type of person rather than confronting their problems head on. When your problems seem unsolvable you’re very likely to fall for this sort of trap.

This specific issue with CFS research is just one microcosm among thousands of others, all the way up to the world of national governments and international relations, which suffers from all the same behaviors and toxicity. It’s amplified more now, but no different than it has ever been.

Re: Online activists are silencing us, scientists say

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely agree with you, but our society has such a stigma around mental illness that if you tell someone their back pain is caused by repressed emotions, you get what happens in the article.

> if you tell someone their back pain is caused by repressed emotions, you get what happens in the article. But...you would (or could?, or should?) never tell someone that, because how would you know? Maybe there is some link but to conclude that it could be the case is pretty silly. So it's not like that's a stigma, it's just a statement not based in fact that evokes a strong reaction because you're telling someone…

Yeah, I think the thing a lot of commenters are missing is that the medical field itself has a pretty bad history of telling people "it's all in your head" when there turned out to be specific, treatable biological causes. This is especially true for CFS, where for a long time it was seen not just to be psychosomatic, but actually "not really that bad."

As another example, stress was blamed as the main cause of ulcers for decades, when an H pylori infection turned out to be the primary culprit.

Re: Online activists are silencing us, scientists say

#143
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> those without a clear physical mechanism, such as RSI or chronic back pain But RSI has a clear physical mechanism. I don't know as much about chronic back pain, but considering how much physical stuff there is in our back, I'd assume it's similar. Or does "physical mechanism" mean something other than it seems to mean?

to be clear... RSI is repetitive stress injury, correct? Or strain?

strain.

Re: Online activists are silencing us, scientists say

#144
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When people call your place of business and complain to your boss about your methods and mental state, when they lobby the government to open investigations into your research under the accusation of child abuse, and when they use every available method to discredit your life's work, I don't think that simply opting-out of Twitter is likely to make a meaningful difference unfortunately.

What are they going to call and complain about if you don't have a social media account for them to dig through?

I think the idea is that these scientists are publishing their findings which are getting translated (poorly, more often than not) by the media outlets and thus its trivial for the activists to locate where the scientists live and work.

Re: Online activists are silencing us, scientists say

#145
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When people call your place of business and complain to your boss about your methods and mental state, when they lobby the government to open investigations into your research under the accusation of child abuse, and when they use every available method to discredit your life's work, I don't think that simply opting-out of Twitter is likely to make a meaningful difference unfortunately.

What are they going to call and complain about if you don't have a social media account for them to dig through?

If you didn’t read the article, these activists are digging through research papers, finding the researchers’ contact info, and harassing them directly. On Twitter when they are on Twitter, but also on the phone and through the mail, and via their employers. This has nothing to do with whether or not the researchers themselves are on Twitter. The mob that’s harassing them uses social media to organize and recruit.

Re: Online activists are silencing us, scientists say

#146
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When people call your place of business and complain to your boss about your methods and mental state, when they lobby the government to open investigations into your research under the accusation of child abuse, and when they use every available method to discredit your life's work, I don't think that simply opting-out of Twitter is likely to make a meaningful difference unfortunately.

What are they going to call and complain about if you don't have a social media account for them to dig through?

[deleted]

Re: Online activists are silencing us, scientists say

#147
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it's because you're not a doctor

I felt plenty of resentment and disbelief when a doctor said it. (Not about RSI in my case, but the point that "it's in your head" does not come off well.)

I used to feel the same way, until I read Sarno’s book. The way he explained what psychosomatic means completely changed my perspective over it.

I think the main problem with many doctors is the fact that the patient tends to feel blamed when told that their minds are causing the problem. This is not Sarno’s approach at all, since he states that chronic pain can be seen as a defense mechanism against deep negative emotions.

Re: Online activists are silencing us, scientists say

#148
post #31

Another field where science is on a collision course with online (and offline) activists is genetics. As we decode and understand more of the genome, it is possible that our genes affect more of our behavior than what the partisans of tabula rasa hold for truth. And unless the political climate evolves, in a power struggle between activists and science, I wouldn't bet on the scientists.

Behavioral genetics is perfectly safe - if they deal with actual genes instead of the utterly unscientific proxies of race that have been long discredited.

There has been no public stir over say ADHD or psychiatric prevalence, hell theories in either direction for "gay genes" failed to move the needle. The Warrior gene" research (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoamine_oxidase_A) didn't despite a crime link and the double Y males link to violence wasn't controversial even though it was later shown to not be endocrinal but IQ related from the condition leading to their overrepresentation.

Re: Online activists are silencing us, scientists say

#149
post #43
post #5

This is sad. Unfortunately we have some people who put their beliefs and politics above science and will actively act against investigation only because a line of inquiry could result in evidence against their view. It comes from both the left and right depending on the topic. It’s not simply dissent it also is about pressuring institutions to not fund certain areas of investigation which is a very detrimental conseq…

Unfortunately we have some people who put their beliefs and politics above science and will actively act against investigation only because a line of inquiry could result in evidence against their view. You say that's people putting beliefs and politics above science, but while that's a rational thing to suggest there are two problems with it. Firstly, a lot of issues don't and can't have any scientific rationale beh…

I see where you are going with your statement:

> Firstly, a lot of issues don't and can't have any scientific rationale behind them. They're moral judgements. For example, if you want to go looking for scientific evidence for why the death penalty is a terrible idea you won't find any. You'll only find ethical and moral rhetoric about why killing innocent people by mistake is bad, or why the economics of keeping people in prison for decades when you could just kill them is irrational. Science has nothing to say. Science doesn't judge.

I wanted to talk more about your example of the death penalty.

However, if you do look into the death penalty, you'll find:

- in places that lock people up for life instead of killing them, sometimes people are later proved to be innocent and then released.

- in places where the penalty is death, a jury that would've sent a person to life in prison will often choose to release the person instead of kill them, as they aren't 100% certain and the consequence is irreversible.

I think science absolutely has some things to say about this. You could take my two statements as hypotheses and do tests to see if they are true. (This would be a lot like medical tests, but it wouldn't be ethical to have a test group and a control group; you could, however, create a regression model between two similar societies (or the same one at different times) and control for various differences, the chiefest being 'uses death penalty' or not, and answer these questions ("prove"/"disprove" the hypotheses) with some confidence.)

I agree that while you could do a study to see if people are happier and economies fare better in societies with capital punishment ["science"], that the rational and the outcome have nothing to do with science. It is a lot like in the Ted talk "Teaching kids real math with computers"[0] where the speaker explains that math has four steps:

1. Posing the right questions

2. Real world -> math formulation

3. Computation

4. Math formulation -> real world verification

If step 3 was 'Do Science', then it becomes obvious that the other steps lie outside the domain of science, but it does not become obvious that we can't use the tools of science to reason about problems that people disagree on, including moral quandaries.

[0]: https://www.ted.com/talks/conrad_wolfram_teaching_kids_real_...

Re: Online activists are silencing us, scientists say

#150
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What, genetically, is a race?

Whether you are white or black or have epicanthic fold or stuff like that is 100% encoded in your genes. Someone saying "in terms of IQ, asians > whites > blacks", which is easily provable, will get in big trouble.

There is significantly more genetic variety in the single black "race" than all others put together. You could try dividing blacks into three or twelve different races but those lines are quite difficult to draw.

Any statement which considers black a single race and white and Oriental distinct is automatically suspect.

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