The FAA isn't passing the smell test. If both previous crashes happened with US carriers taking off from US airports, you better believe the FAA would ground these boeing max jets.
E.U.’s Biggest Economies Ban Boeing Max 8 Jets
141–150 of 365 posts
Re: E.U.’s Biggest Economies Ban Boeing Max 8 Jets
#142Does anyone actually know or suspect what's wrong with these planes? Hardware issue? Software issue?
The engines are larger than previous models and had to be moved forward, which causes it to (potentially) stall, so they implemented an anti-stalling mechanism called MCAS which relies on a particular sensor, which can malfunction potentially. They also didn't inform pilots that this system even existed which means they have trouble diagnosing the problem and will potentially only make it worse by trying other things…
Note that the engines were moved forward because there's not enough ground clearance for bigger engines due to the grandfathered 1967-specified short undercarriage...
Bascially MCAS is a hack to cover a problem raised by trying to save money by pretending it's the same as a 52-year old airframe. Instead of just saying "let's do this properly ” and certificating as a new design with appropriate design features.
Re: E.U.’s Biggest Economies Ban Boeing Max 8 Jets
#143Earlier quoted context omitted.
That seems like a disincentive to buy American aircraft. If you're a reasonably sized international airline, it seems like a reasonable possibility that you'd have to (or want to) land in a territory that the US in unfavourable toward. Why take the risk?
In the Iran case, there are similar sanctions from the EU, so the Airbus A320 family are also out of the question. And if you want something the size of the best selling variants of the A320 family and 737 MAX you have essentially no choice.
Maybe, but in the specific case of an Norwegian airline, it seems less likely there would be a 'mismatch' of interests, with the rest of Europe, compared with the US.
And I thought Europe were lifting their Iran sanctions? They're trying to get a non USD payment system sorted so they can continue trade after the US pulled out of a deal.
https://www.gtreview.com/news/mena/analysis-will-europes-new...
Re: E.U.’s Biggest Economies Ban Boeing Max 8 Jets
#144Earlier quoted context omitted.
From what I gathered so far, it looks like airplane design was made with many compromises that made it complicated to pilot planes properly.
I agree, in my eyes it is debate between "the plane is not safe to fly by anyone" and "the plane is safe to fly with additional training, when given" If the 737 MAX planes remain in the air in the USA, Boeing and US Govt are de facto saying "third world pilots clearly just don't understand how to fly our planes". If they ground the planes, they de facto admit there is an actual safety issue.
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Re: E.U.’s Biggest Economies Ban Boeing Max 8 Jets
#145Earlier quoted context omitted.
The engines are larger than previous models and had to be moved forward, which causes it to (potentially) stall, so they implemented an anti-stalling mechanism called MCAS which relies on a particular sensor, which can malfunction potentially. They also didn't inform pilots that this system even existed which means they have trouble diagnosing the problem and will potentially only make it worse by trying other things…
As you say, most of the speculation seems to focus on MCAS in combination with faulty sensor data. While, as a layman, pilots being unfamiliar with MCAS seems like a reasonable explanation, doesn't this theory still require 2 planes in 6 months to have faulty AOA sensor data? That seems unusually high to me as well. I haven't really seen any comments on that.
It does not seem too surprising to me. Sensors fail all the time on planes. The AOA sensor seems like a particularly good candidate for failure given the design.
I think most people don't realize just how much stuff can be broken on an airliner and it still deemed safe to fly. And it happens all the time.
Re: E.U.’s Biggest Economies Ban Boeing Max 8 Jets
#146I urge people to read the discussion by pilots regarding the 737 MAX.
https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/safety/120514-ethiopian-7...
It all comes down to this:
"There are far too many aerodynamic bandaids that are permitted to pass the current standards. Not just this particular airplane, but a whole bunch of airframes. If the basic aerodynamics won't pass without the pushers, pullers and now AOA induced changes to primary and secondary controls then a new design of the wing platform should come into play."
The way I interpret this, is that the plane should never have gotten the green light to fly.
More info about the MCAS here: https://theaircurrent.com/aviation-safety/what-is-the-boeing...
Re: E.U.’s Biggest Economies Ban Boeing Max 8 Jets
#147How good are Boeing's software engineers? They don't seem to pay very well.
The 777 is the second-safest aircraft in the world, next to the Airbus A340. The 787 is on track to demonstrate a similar safety record (in terms of fatal incidents).
So overall, they seem to be quite good.
Re: E.U.’s Biggest Economies Ban Boeing Max 8 Jets
#148Earlier quoted context omitted.
From what I gathered so far, it looks like airplane design was made with many compromises that made it complicated to pilot planes properly.
I agree, in my eyes it is debate between "the plane is not safe to fly by anyone" and "the plane is safe to fly with additional training, when given" If the 737 MAX planes remain in the air in the USA, Boeing and US Govt are de facto saying "third world pilots clearly just don't understand how to fly our planes". If they ground the planes, they de facto admit there is an actual safety issue.
> "the plane is safe to fly with additional training, when given"
If that is ultimately the conclusion, then it still gives the FAA and EASA a black eye, since they allowed the aircraft update without additional training for MCAS.
Best case scenario for Boeing is that the Ethiopian Airlines crash turns out to be something else. If it is MCAS related Boeing, the FAA, and EASA amongst others that green-lit the update without training have a lot to answer for.
Re: E.U.’s Biggest Economies Ban Boeing Max 8 Jets
#149Earlier quoted context omitted.
Wow. This is pretty ridiculous considering all three of these planes seem to have been closer to their destination than the origin, making it safer to just finish the planned flight.
Do these groundings also apply to ferrying the plane?
From the official reports mentioned elsewhere:
> From the effective date and time of this AD, do not operate the aeroplane, except that a single non-commercial ferry flight (up to three flight cycles) may be accomplished to return the aeroplane to a location where the expected corrective action(s) can be accomplished.
So they are allowed to be ferried in certain situations.
Re: E.U.’s Biggest Economies Ban Boeing Max 8 Jets
#150[deleted]