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Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

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Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#141

Post by lm28469 »

mancerayder wrote: post #114
lm28469 wrote: post #85

Sleep is fun, people who regularly lack it will tell you they're "just fine" but they've been lacking sleep for so long that the baseline they're comparing themselves to is already skewed. Take two weeks off, avoid alcohol and other stimulant, avoid artificial light after 8 and wake up without an alarm. You'll see how you feel after that regimen. Your body knows exactly how much sleep it needs. But that's not compati…

Great moralisms, but most of us have a hard stop from sleep at 7something am to go to work. Others of us have stress issues such that falling asleep isn't easy, and you wake up 'naturally' 45 minutes before the alarm with a mind full of worries. The whole idea of 'natural' is normative garbage. Let me guess, you sleep immediately on a plane as soon as doors close, too? We're not all built the same way.

> but most of us have a hard stop from sleep at 7something am to go to work

Well that's a feature of our economy, and a whole other issue. Artifact of the industrial revolution if I'm not mistaken; "8 hrs of sleep, 8 hrs of work, 8hrs of entertainment"; which is obviously a lie and not much more than propaganda, but people seems to put up with it. It doesn't work very well you you add commute time, chores, &c. in the mix.

> Let me guess, you sleep immediately on a plane as soon as doors close, too? We're not all built the same way.

Quite the opposite, I always need 0.5-1 hour to fall asleep, and that's in my pitch black, noise free bedroom. Never slept in a plane, albeit I don't fly very often.

> The whole idea of 'natural' is normative garbage

You do you. Technology evolved much faster than our bodies during the last 200-300 years, our internal cycle still heavily relies on light (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circadian_rhythm), now you can chose to ignore that or go with what evolution designed you for. You can brush of "natural" as being a hippie thing if you want, at the end of the day we're all slave to our bodies, better at least try to please it than to force it in "unnatural" processes.

I'm just a regular guy with a regular IT job, of course my experience won't match a factory worker, but if I can help a few people here and there I've done my part.

Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#142

Post by lm28469 »

fatnoah wrote: post #139
Loughla wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See, I'm the opposite. Even without the screen time or stimulation, I will fall dead asleep at 10pm, and no matter what, will wake up promptly at 4am. I feel like there really are people who have different needs.

This. I haven't used an alarm for close to 20 years, though my cycle is closer to 12 to 6.

Well, that doesn't invalidate my point.

The whole thing is to listen to your body, the problem is when people do 12 to 6 with an alarm, while they'd actually sleep form 10 to 7 without external constraints.

Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#143

Post by rypskar »

zxcvbn4038 wrote: post #65

Study or not, I feel great after sleeping in on Saturday mornings. I look forward to it all week. Sensational studies like this come out all the time, usually don’t hold up over time and peer review. Wish people would get so excited over shorter work weeks.

But the problem isn't sleeping long on Saturday, the problem is that it might not be enough to catch up to lost sleep during the week.

Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#144

Post by hutzlibu »

CalRobert wrote: post #120
fratlas wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has anyone managed to break out of this? I've tried increasing exercise, waking up with sunlight; nothing works

A hard cut of caffeine after 10:30 AM, cutting blue light (and screens if possible) after sunset, and if nothing else having a kid can do it. Or, try camping for a few days. Try not to look at your phone after sunset.

Or leave the phone at home or at least do not turn it on, unless you need to.

Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#145

Post by ptero »

mruts wrote: post #105
lm28469 wrote: post #85

Sleep is fun, people who regularly lack it will tell you they're "just fine" but they've been lacking sleep for so long that the baseline they're comparing themselves to is already skewed. Take two weeks off, avoid alcohol and other stimulant, avoid artificial light after 8 and wake up without an alarm. You'll see how you feel after that regimen. Your body knows exactly how much sleep it needs. But that's not compati…

I dunno, maybe I’m weird, but without an alarm I can sleep 12 hours. And when I do, I feel like total shit: very tired, groggy, and a little depressed. If I sleep 5-7 hours on the otherhand, I feel much better.

I am not a doctor, but I still suspect that your body is catching up on sleep it thinks it needs and the bad feeling after it is due to just switching between modes (switching off your current 5-7 hrs of sleep a night). If so, you will likely need way more than 1 night to transition.

As a personal anecdote: I once slept for 10.5-11 hours a day for about 2 weeks. I decided that I need to catch up on sleep, so I went to bed at 8PM every night, fell asleep by 9 and awoke between 7:30 and 8. After about 2 weeks I stopped falling asleep by 9 and would fall asleep around 11 and wake up at 7, at which time I stopped my "sleep fattening". I did feel like a weirdo going to bed at 8, but it felt great at the end.

YMMV, but if you can sleep for 12 hours a night I would consider letting your body do it for at least several days to see if it would switch to a different mode that your would like more. My 2c.

Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#146

Post by Retra »

cobbzilla wrote: post #96
FooHentai wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>is the source of so much of our present issues. Citation needed. Because hyperbole is no different in meta.

The replication problem has been well documented, at least for the social sciences. A cursory search for “replication crisis” will yield many results. For example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replication_crisis

The replication crisis is a problem, but it is almost certainly not the main source of societies ills.

Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#147

Post by comboy »

mruts wrote: post #105
lm28469 wrote: post #85

Sleep is fun, people who regularly lack it will tell you they're "just fine" but they've been lacking sleep for so long that the baseline they're comparing themselves to is already skewed. Take two weeks off, avoid alcohol and other stimulant, avoid artificial light after 8 and wake up without an alarm. You'll see how you feel after that regimen. Your body knows exactly how much sleep it needs. But that's not compati…

I dunno, maybe I’m weird, but without an alarm I can sleep 12 hours. And when I do, I feel like total shit: very tired, groggy, and a little depressed. If I sleep 5-7 hours on the otherhand, I feel much better.

One of reasons could be that when you are sleep deprived you have elevated adrenaline and cortisol, which you might got used to.

Check "Why we sleep" recommended elsewhere in this thread if you want to fix it.

Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#148

Post by edelans »

lm28469 wrote: post #85

Sleep is fun, people who regularly lack it will tell you they're "just fine" but they've been lacking sleep for so long that the baseline they're comparing themselves to is already skewed. Take two weeks off, avoid alcohol and other stimulant, avoid artificial light after 8 and wake up without an alarm. You'll see how you feel after that regimen. Your body knows exactly how much sleep it needs. But that's not compati…

This is exactly why I love to rent a sail for for a 1 wk holidays. This is relaxing by design : on a sail boat, you "live with the sun", there is no wifi, no 4G, you have to save your electricity...

Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#149

Post by hutzlibu »

michaelt wrote: post #115
lm28469 wrote: post #85

Sleep is fun, people who regularly lack it will tell you they're "just fine" but they've been lacking sleep for so long that the baseline they're comparing themselves to is already skewed. Take two weeks off, avoid alcohol and other stimulant, avoid artificial light after 8 and wake up without an alarm. You'll see how you feel after that regimen. Your body knows exactly how much sleep it needs. But that's not compati…

avoid artificial light after 8 To follow this advice in my location (sunset today 6pm) should I be going to bed at 8pm? Or should I be trying to read by moonlight or something?

Candles are nice. But anything is better, than ordinary LED light..
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