My Chromecast Ultra would not start until I began answering 8.8.8.8 • Hacker News Board

Re: My Chromecast Ultra would not start until I began answering 8.8.8.8

#141

Post by shawnz » Fri, Feb 15, 2019, 4:16 PM UTC

pdkl95 wrote: post #103

fixermark wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That default, sadly, would basically guarantee the thing doesn't work for all too many users. And as a consumer electronics product (especially in the sub-$50 price-range), the market-smart thing to do is configure the defaults to work in the saddle-point of worst-case and common scenario (i.e. badly-configured local router talking to a standards-hostile ISP's DHCP configurations).

The proper thing to do is to use the DNS settings the DHCP server provided and testing those settings by providing a server the device can lookup and connect to (with TLS). If the server proved it's authenticity, the DNS settings work. (some devices might cache this result, others might do this during startup) If an error occurs or a reasonably short timeout expires, the device can: if it has UI the user will see, it…

> don't make assumptions about the user's situation

Using 8.8.8.8 is exactly the opposite of an assumption. It always works in any config, that's the point.

EDIT: Besides, obviously, the OP's extremely unusual config, where he is effectively just blocking the service with his firewall. Why isn't he outraged about having to unblock all of YouTube's other IPs? What's special about 8.8.8.8?

Re: My Chromecast Ultra would not start until I began answering 8.8.8.8

#142

Post by joshuamorton » Fri, Feb 15, 2019, 4:18 PM UTC

lelf wrote: post #86

scrollaway wrote: post #14

I'm always shocked at how easy it is for people to fall into the "Google is evil!!1" trap on such trivial stuff (and funnily enough, much more serious privacy issues related to Google are ignored/downvoted). Hardcoded DNS servers are common. Extremely common in a bunch of IOT devices, given how broken some ISPs are. This is a non-story and the only reason it's being upvoted is because Google is doing it, and they als…

> If Google used Google DNS to spy on people Are you seriously thinking they don't store/analyse/use that kind of information??? (That's every site you visit, at minimum.)

Yes.

They don't. They guarantee they don't.

The spooky answer is they don't need it.

Re: My Chromecast Ultra would not start until I began answering 8.8.8.8

#143

Post by nemonemo » Fri, Feb 15, 2019, 4:18 PM UTC

From this post, it is unclear whether the DNS given by DHCP should be 8.8.8.8, or the device only needs reachability to 8.8.8.8. I think if the latter is true, it seems acceptable, given the internet can be unpredictable, and Google network reachability would be correlated among services.

Re: My Chromecast Ultra would not start until I began answering 8.8.8.8

#144

Post by jchw » Fri, Feb 15, 2019, 4:19 PM UTC

AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #119

Knowing who he is, my takeaway should be, "Wow! An Internet Hall of Famer weighing in against a Google product!" But my actual takeaway is, "Legends of the CS world write informal, pithy rants to Google just like the rest of us mortals."

I find the responses on the mailing list to be interesting. Nobody there seems terribly amused by this thread so far.

>Are you looking for https://support.google.com/chromecast/contactflow ?

>And [wasting our time] as well.

And to be fair, I would've expected a personal blog post rather than an IETF post. This is definitely quaint, though it gets the point across.

Re: My Chromecast Ultra would not start until I began answering 8.8.8.8

#145

Post by skybrian » Fri, Feb 15, 2019, 4:22 PM UTC

josteink wrote: post #93

adsadadsad wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe. But it's trivial, for your ADSL/DSL/Fiber shitty $30 router to intercept port 53/(udp|tcp) bind it to it's own local dnsmasq or whatever and then send DNS onward to DHCP DNS servers supplied by your ISP. When I say trivial I mean I've seen it happen on several setups, old me - we'll just change the DNS on this box to bust the cache here to 1.1.1.1(CF)/8.8.8.8(EvilG) but still end up a shitty ISP dns servers (a…

> bind it to it's own local dnsmasq or whatever and then send DNS onward to DHCP DNS servers supplied by your ISP... There's a reason for the push for DNS over HTTPS. This is looking at things and totally backwards. You have a local problem, a broken router and you suggest we fix this by changing how all edge nodes on the internet works. In the age of ever increasing, untrustworthy IOT-devices, you don’t solve this p…

In a world of mobile devices and public WiFi spots set up by random businesses, you're saying we should trust the network operator? That's a rather odd argument.

Re: My Chromecast Ultra would not start until I began answering 8.8.8.8

#146

Post by Fnoord » Fri, Feb 15, 2019, 4:24 PM UTC

I have and use a Chromecast Ultra and redirect all traffic outward to port 53 to an internal DNS server which blocks ads and utilizes DNSSEC. I don't block 8.8.8.8 specifically though but it cannot be used by normal means as it would get redirected

Re: My Chromecast Ultra would not start until I began answering 8.8.8.8

#147

Post by silon42 » Fri, Feb 15, 2019, 4:25 PM UTC

josteink wrote: post #7

Expect more of this once “DNS over HTTPS” takes hold. Nothing Google makes will ever respect your DHCP-server or local network settings ever again.

I guess we'll have to block protocols where DPI doesn't work.

Re: My Chromecast Ultra would not start until I began answering 8.8.8.8

#148

Post by Arnt » Fri, Feb 15, 2019, 4:25 PM UTC

joekrill wrote: post #113

richardwhiuk wrote: post #13

I've seen this been done before, and IME it's reasonable behavior. I've seen so many instances of computers configured with DNS servers which are extremely slow, or provide garbage results, that adding a known good DNS server to the list, and then parallel resolving across all of them is a perfectly legitimate thing to do.

OK but if that "known good" DNS server goes down or isn't available, you still have others you can fall back to. The device shouldn't just become completely useless. But that's what Google is doing here. It's their DNS servers or none, it seems.

I too have written code that asks 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4, because the DNS server I get from DHCP frequently is so brain-damaged. (SRV records, what's that?) I asked both in parallel.

On one hand it feels wrong to not ask in parallel.

On the other, $%#@%#$%!$@# the %$#%#$%^$#@%#$! packet filters that block DNS packets to everyone except the local brain-damaged resolver. Or even redirect. If Google will fight that fight I'll happily enjoy the benefits.

Re: My Chromecast Ultra would not start until I began answering 8.8.8.8

#149

Post by izuchukwu » Fri, Feb 15, 2019, 4:26 PM UTC

nemonemo wrote: post #143

From this post, it is unclear whether the DNS given by DHCP should be 8.8.8.8, or the device only needs reachability to 8.8.8.8. I think if the latter is true, it seems acceptable, given the internet can be unpredictable, and Google network reachability would be correlated among services.

I could be misunderstanding, but if subsequent requests are to be made with the DNS provided by DHCP, reachability to 8.8.8.8 would only be helpful to disambgiuate what kind of network error is causing a failure to make network calls regularly. Otherwise, reachability would be best tested with, for example, a Google domain using the provided DNS.

Re: My Chromecast Ultra would not start until I began answering 8.8.8.8

#150

Post by EastSmith » Fri, Feb 15, 2019, 4:27 PM UTC

We desperately need PrivacyFirst product reviews with 1 to 5 ratings, links to buy, reviews, etc. Someone please build it and put your referral links there - I will click on them all.

Recently I wanted to buy home speakers and realized that all devices with top reviews need an app to function, and I need to agree to some privacy terms, etc.

We need to have have old school products where I am giving you X bucks and you leave me alone.