Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 376 posts

Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#141

Post by rconti »

SN76477 wrote: post #31
crushcrashcrush wrote: post #4

This is a great example in my opinion of the apathy we need to combat as technologists. Why did NO ONE in any meetings when designing this "feature" or process say anything? "This is wrong/greedy/will have blowback." No one voiced concerns? Or, more specifically, if they did, no one listened? They didn't think this would leak out, with all the hatred regarding wage stagnation, income inequality, corporate greed? A ma…

I am currently working under Grubhub, Doordash, Uber Eats and several other food delivery services. None of them communicate, none of them tell you what is going on, none of them are controlling the conversation their employees are talking about on Facebook. It is PR 101 to control the conversation... but every one of them fail at this when it comes to contractors.

Is Uber Eats or Grubhub (or PostMates) better than DoorDash in terms of how they handle tipping? Or can you even tell? I imagine the payments are so opaque it can be hard to tell.

I'm not using DoorDash anymore, not that I used them much before, but I feel ripped off. If I choose to use a delivery service, I'd at least like to know it's one that hasn't been lying to me. I realize that probably means Uber is right out :)

Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#142

Post by smallgovt »

Benjammer wrote: post #117
crushcrashcrush wrote: post #4

This is a great example in my opinion of the apathy we need to combat as technologists. Why did NO ONE in any meetings when designing this "feature" or process say anything? "This is wrong/greedy/will have blowback." No one voiced concerns? Or, more specifically, if they did, no one listened? They didn't think this would leak out, with all the hatred regarding wage stagnation, income inequality, corporate greed? A ma…

The people in positions of power to make these sorts of decisions are almost never incentivized to do anything other than make the maximum possible amount of money for investors/shareholders. I've never heard of a corporate leadership structure that would, for example, reward the lowest executive/director on the totem pole individually for choosing to do something that has a good chance of limiting revenue from what…

I couldn't agree with this comment more. Outrage may solve these issues on a case by case basis, but it seems more prudent to focus on the larger systemic issue -- capitalistic incentives.

Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#143

Post by rconti »

mhb wrote: post #9
chaboud wrote: post #6

I have a simple answer: I will never use Instacart or Doordash again, ever. Even if they change their policy, they are dead to me as companies, and any company that acquires them is similarly dead to me. If you're out there, upstart disruptors, know that pulling stuff like this will cost you at least one customer for life. I'm sure that there are more people like me.

Instacart workers have urged customers not to boycott the company, which would cut even further into their earnings.

They're welcome to their opinion, and we're welcome to ours. If the point is to help every Instacart worker as much as possible, then the answer is complicated.

If the point is to not support businesses that lie to their customers, then not supporting them anymore is the right move.

Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#144

Post by rconti »

pithymaxim wrote: post #72

>Instacart and DoorDash...have figured out a clever way to use customer tips to lower their labor expenses. Isn't this how restaurants work..?

Yes, but whether or not you think it's immoral, it's legal, and it's codified. Which is different from DoorDash lying to you when they say "100% of the tip goes to your Dasher".

Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#145

Post by devindotcom »

resters wrote: post #25

Why doesn't this problem exist when I order something from Amazon? Because there is no absurd idea that I should be tipping the UPS guy or anyone else involved in fulfilling my order. It makes much more sense for InstaCart to simply collect star ratings and offer bonuses for the employees who are going above and beyond. Considering how often the shopper has to call me about replacements, parking outside my building,…

In my opinion the tip comes in when you ask for a service specific to you and a person provides it. USPS is providing a general service to your, let's call it neighborhood. But a barber is providing a personal service to you.

Doordash and the like are more like the latter than the former. You say what you want, a single person in that profession does the work for you, and then you pay their fee and something on top.

Of course I'd rather tips were not necessary but it is practices like this one that make them necessary. And I wouldn't trust them with some rating/bonus system. If these companies were paying a good wage and had good benefits instead of relying on the 1099 economy and skimming payments even after that, we could eliminate tips altogether. I look forward to that day, but until we get there...

Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#146

Post by rconti »

ForHackernews wrote: post #5

Always tip cash to service people. http://tipthepizzaguy.com/

I question the premise of the page: people don't know you're supposed to tip your driver?

I got my hair cut the other day, and asked my stylist about this; she doesn't really care cash versus CC, HOWEVER, she uses Square (or similar), and if you tip on your card, it's automatically rolled into the 1099; there's no way to have non-taxed tips.

Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#148

Post by celtain »

duxup wrote: post #7

It's terrible, but really it fits what these businesses do fundamentally. They provide a service, and and push as much risk off of the copany and onto their contractors as possible. Slow sales? Contractor just doesn't get paid. Injury? Contractor's problem, he's gone, who is next? The idea that they'd dip into the pot further to ensure more money for the company isn't much different than the rest of the risk they put…

You're probably right in general, but in this case the policy shifted risk from the contractor to the company, not the other way around. The $10 minimum meant that contractors were shielded from low payouts caused by a small tip, but also meant a lower payout for high tips.

Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#149

Post by Jordrok »

ummonk wrote: post #28

I've always found this practice outrageous but don't understand why everyone else is only getting outraged now that Instacart and DoorDash do it... This is pretty normal in the restaurant and food delivery industry, and should have been made illegal ages ago.

This is the exact thought I had when I read the article. I never understood how or why this practice was legal in the first place, but it sounds almost identical to what Instacart and DoorDash are doing.

People SHOULD be outraged!

Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#150

Post by ergothus »

anigbrowl wrote: post #65
Judgmentality wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean ultimately it's the executives that call the shots. I've seen people stand up to executives over things like this and then they get fired and it's business as usual. Most people aren't willing to risk their jobs over screwing over gig workers, especially when you feel powerless to actually stop it from happening. I mean it's so socially acceptable we've even coined the term "gig economy" Chances are the people…

Most people aren't willing to risk their jobs over screwing over gig workers Ironic that they may have ended doing long term damage to their careers as a result.

Did they? Can you name the people to blame? If someone shows up with Instacart on their resume, is it hard for them to act like they were either ignorant or against the decision?
Post reply on HN