Live data from Hacker News

Use DuckDuckGo to improve your privacy online (2018)

spreadprivacy.com

141–150 of 182 posts

Re: Use DuckDuckGo to improve your privacy online (2018)

#141
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any possible way the old google could be resurrected? By google themselves or just someone cloning the tech? My google-fu keeps getting worse, on pages I know I've found handily in the past. I'd almost pay for a good search, cash or personal data or whatever.

Google offers the verbatim mode (search for exact words of phrases) which you can activate in tools or by adding the tbs=li:1 parameter to the URL.

I've always used that, but it annoys me that verbatim can't be combined with e.g. restricting the date on a search, because both use the 'tbh' parameter.

Re: Use DuckDuckGo to improve your privacy online (2018)

#142

I first tried DDG in its early years and it just didn't yield the results I needed, I tried it again a couple of years ago and have stuck with it ever since as it has must better results these days.

Every now and then I search for something and don't get the results I'd expect. So I turn to Google, but for the past year or so I noticed that Google can't find what I expect for those search terms either. The difference seems to be that Google starts guessing and excluding keywords, without understanding that those keywords where important. For me personally, Google is a less pleasant experience these days. The Duc…

> The difference seems to be that Google starts guessing and excluding keywords, without understanding that those keywords where important.

I still find this weird because it's the exact opposite for me. I've posted this here several times, but to say it again: Everytime I use google, they honor all my forced terms. DDG, as soon as they don't have a lot of results, says "As we can't show you a lot of results, we decided you want something completely unrelated instead. Have fun."

Google also shows you which terms they excluded, DDG quietly drops them.

I like DDG, but when they made that change, it made me use !g more often.

edit: Because people tend to downvote me when I say this, here are examples:

Query: google "amp" modal

DDG: Google Maps SO issue, Google Sheets landing page, more google maps results. Only 7 is related by simply showing the AMP homepage.

Google: Only google amp results related to "modals" in some way.

And yes, the results google shows are actually in DDGs index, it's just that they decided they know what I want even though I forced the amp term.

Re: Use DuckDuckGo to improve your privacy online (2018)

#143

I first tried DDG in its early years and it just didn't yield the results I needed, I tried it again a couple of years ago and have stuck with it ever since as it has must better results these days.

My main problem with Google was that the entire first screen (above the fold) was full of advertising and included no actual search results, in the majority of my searches. DuckDuckGo is better at that, for now, so I made the switch about a year ago.

It just occurred to me that I never see ads on Google. I'm not sure why. Possible reasons: I have an old computer, use out-of-date browsers, and my computer is set to spanish (but almost all search results are in english), browser set to 'block web advertising'. But..never any ads, at all - no sponsored results etc, nothing, not on the side or on search results or at the top of the page. (I have seen a load of them on other peoples' computers' google searches, so I know what they look like.)

Re: Use DuckDuckGo to improve your privacy online (2018)

#144
post #122

I can’t tell if everyone here is serious when they say they haven’t looked back. Google knowledge graph is years ahead of DDG. Average person does not want to click through results, s/he just wants the answer. Compare these queries in Google vs. ddg: - nba scores - 2018 super bowl - lakers roster - movies in theatres - game of thrones cast - $aapl - where is my phone - 2019 thanksgiving etc

Personally I find that Google is great for "social knowledge" like the examples above, but for work related troubleshooting/documentation/error codes/etc duck duck go brings me better results.

If I'm searching for a place to eat near my house I use google, if I'm searching for WSUS error code 0X8024401C I use DDG

Re: Use DuckDuckGo to improve your privacy online (2018)

#145
I believe in everything DDG stands for but just earlier I did a search comparison to see which search engine provided the most helpful results. I searched 'asus block third party firmware' (no quotes) and objectively I have to say that Google provided the most helpful results. Search yourself and see if you come to the same conclusion.

Re: Use DuckDuckGo to improve your privacy online (2018)

#148
post #131
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Whatever the reasons may be for this decision, it allows DDG to track all links that the user follows from the results page. That is no better than Google. It is not a privacy improvement in that regard. It's meant so that the sites you click on can't see your search queries via the Referer HTTP header. You can turn that off in DDG's settings[1] under the privacy tab. It's the "Redirect" switch. They explain more a…

Here is another perspective from a non-developer user on those reasons and the resulting tradeoff (of allowing DDG to trivially track which result links are followed): 1. Privacy conscious users can control whether a Referer header is sent and if so, the content of that header. They might choose to use a browser that does not make it easy to control the Referer header. But DDG does not account for those privacy consc…

> But DDG does not account for those privacy conscious users who may be using browsers that do allow this control. (Bias discosure: I use one and not for privacy reasons.)

> The DDG decision seems to encourage users to choose browsers that have privacy-unfriendly default settings or that do not make it easy or even possible to control what if any Referer is sent.

I can't follow your logic. That DDG provides their own method of circumvention for information leakage through the Referer header does not mean that it encourages browsers that don't have such features. That's like saying that a building that provides facilities for the disabled is encouraging people to become disabled.

> At the very least, it tries to resolve an issue that is a clearly client-side one and is best resolved there.

And you believe that that's going to happen? In a broad sense, DDG's goal is to promote privacy. The more it can help people in keeping their privacy, the better. I for one, don't control the Referer header in my browser even though I could because I'm lazy, and I appreciate DDG helping me a bit in that regard. However, I imagine that many users of DDG don't even know what a Referer header is, why complicate their search for privacy when DDG can help them?

> Correct me if I am wrong but storing "settings" with DDG requires a cookie and/or Javascript to be enabled.

> If this is true, then again this is not an improvement in privacy.

Why? You give me the impression that you think that any use of cookies requires the ability to track a user, but that's not so. A cookie is merely data that is passed with each request. If the server receives a request "please give me search results for foo and take the following settings into account...", that's not really privacy invasive. The server is not tracking you and remembering you, you're simply providing your preferences in each request as if it were the first time that the server had ever met you.

> One might wonder why DDG cannot provide an alternative search page with its form method set to POST. Users can then choose which search page they prefer. No cookie needed.

It does. It's in the settings. It probably does use a cookie, but there's no privacy reason to avoid it.

> Instead it sets the default method on its search pages to GET (perhaps leaking the query in the URL).

> How many users will bother to change the default? A minority of them, no doubt.

Like I said in the comment you replied to, the default doesn't leak to either. In the second link I shared, DDG explains how it uses a meta tag to set the URL that the browser should use for Referer. As I understand it, it doesn't even require javascript to work.

Re: Use DuckDuckGo to improve your privacy online (2018)

#149
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only. It's a bit more fuzzy than that now.

Nope! :) Its actually part of the syntax of search queries for google. That said, it still isn't always the best results.

That's anecdotally false. I've had Google use synonyms for words I put in quotes instead of the words themselves.

Re: Use DuckDuckGo to improve your privacy online (2018)

#150
I'm glad they're moving forward, but I still don't buy it. Someone is tossing a big load of money on them (you know that when you see their ad in twitter every day, and articles like this), specially in the last year. When that happens, investors will want their return, no matter what.

People saying they respect your privacy, but... how do you really know? Also because "improved privacy" != "no targeted ads". They can still do massive amounts of money from the data we provide.

At some point:

1) they would have to comply with some law somewhere, handling user data (logs). 2) they may become the number 2 search engine. Spammers will target them and they would have to start doing some behavioral analysis on "what links worked well to those kind of users" to fix that.

Are they so transparent and well intentioned? Is their system so simple, so innocuous and filled only with anonymous data? Fine, they should Open-source the engine and servers, prove that they are using the same code we see, give us RO access to the DBs, and the equivalent of a MacDonalds kitchen tour.

Otherwise, they are just relying on nice words.

Post reply on HN