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Great Divide in How Americans Commute to Work

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Re: Great Divide in How Americans Commute to Work

#141

Post by the_gastropod »

rayiner wrote: post #137
the_gastropod wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Millions of New Yorkers (and billions worldwide) have kids, no car, and get along just fine. Subway trains are quite capable of carrying virtually anything you can carry. And bicycle trailers are pretty impressive specimens. And when you need to haul anything truly massive, sure, rent a Uhaul. But to pretend you need a 2-ton vehicle because you've got a couple little kids and a load of groceries for the week... c'mon…

There is no way you can fit a week's groceries for a family of four in a bicycle trailer.

...yea https://bikecart.pedalpeople.coop/gallery.html

Most people fit their week's worth of groceries in a grocery cart, and manage to push that around the store. I really don't understand why it's crazy to think you could tow them home with a bicycle. Plenty of people do this. It's a bit out of the norm in the U.S., yes. But don't for a second think it's impossible, or even particularly challenging.

Re: Great Divide in How Americans Commute to Work

#142

Post by zjaffee »

SystemOut wrote: post #100

I don't understand why Americans love their cars so much. I grew up in Oklahoma and you pretty much have to have a car. Huge amount of land, not many people. Virtually no public transportation. I moved to the Bay Area back in 2000 and car-pooled for exactly one year of that time and then took BART the other 16 years before moving to Chicago. Even though I like driving I really hate traffic. Why would I sit in traffic…

Having a car gives you a stronger sense of having control over your transportation, namely you don't have to rely on other people, on timetables, or the stability of the regional transit system in order to get from place to place.

You do have to deal with traffic, but for many people it's worth the tradeoff.

Re: Great Divide in How Americans Commute to Work

#143

Post by seanmcdirmid »

rst wrote: post #36
bloomca wrote: post #27

I don't think there is such a great divide. The greater divide is between people who own a car (or cars) and who do not, however, seems for USA it is a divide between New York City and the rest of the country. Also, I can comment on one thing I personally enjoy a lot – walking. I lived in many European cities, and recently moved to USA, so I can comment on it. To be able to walk, you need to live close enough to your…

It's not just New York; there are a few other urban areas with significant numbers of commuters by transit -- Boston and San Francisco (with the crowd traveling on the "Google buses", and the number of tech jobs downtown) both come to mind. But there are lots of cities (Los Angeles most notoriously) where a car-free life is nearly impossible.

I did car free in LA for awhile, it’s becoming an increasingly popular option actually. I did it by living close to work in a mostly urban area (Westwood), but one of my colleagues commutes in from Hollywood somewhere, he seemed happy with how it worked out.

Re: Great Divide in How Americans Commute to Work

#144

Post by biztos »

chrisseaton wrote: post #107
clairity wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

do you live in LA and know this firsthand or are you repeating a cliché? i live in LA and walk often. it's great. the weather is awesome (60's and sunny today, in the middle of winter), i have dozens of good restaurants and cafes within walking distance, as is most of my shopping needs. parks, theaters, museums, bars, and other entertainment can be easily reached by walking. LA is a big city so not everything is righ…

> i live in LA and walk often. it's great. Doesn't LA have literally the most polluted air in the country? Doesn't sound great for walking.

I visited Santa Monica (basically LA unless you live in LA) several times and walked almost everywhere, only taking a Lyft when I really wanted to go across town (the Blue Bus comes eventually, but it isn't fast). Air quality was fine and there was a 4-mile beach to walk on if you wanted to really Walk.

I know people who live in Downtown LA and don't own cars.

I get the impression there are several parts of LA you can live in without regularly driving, and still have a very normal lifestyle. Not sure about the air quality downtown but my friends didn't complain about it.

Re: Great Divide in How Americans Commute to Work

#145

Post by seanmcdirmid »

zjaffee wrote: post #124
clairity wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

do you live in LA and know this firsthand or are you repeating a cliché? i live in LA and walk often. it's great. the weather is awesome (60's and sunny today, in the middle of winter), i have dozens of good restaurants and cafes within walking distance, as is most of my shopping needs. parks, theaters, museums, bars, and other entertainment can be easily reached by walking. LA is a big city so not everything is righ…

Sounds like you live in downtown, as that's the only neighborhood that fits all of those things within walking distance. The majority of people who live in LA, live somewhere nestled into the bigger sprawl that is the region. While there are plenty of neighborhoods that have walkable aspects, the city is by no means walkable (even with transit) to huge portions of the city.

Actually, it sounds like he/she doesn’t live downtown.

I had all that when I was living in Westwood, which is far far far aaay from downtown, but I could have had that in belverly hills, or Culver City, or even (but just barely) Brentwood.

Re: Great Divide in How Americans Commute to Work

#146

Post by seanmcdirmid »

chrisseaton wrote: post #107
clairity wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

do you live in LA and know this firsthand or are you repeating a cliché? i live in LA and walk often. it's great. the weather is awesome (60's and sunny today, in the middle of winter), i have dozens of good restaurants and cafes within walking distance, as is most of my shopping needs. parks, theaters, museums, bars, and other entertainment can be easily reached by walking. LA is a big city so not everything is righ…

> i live in LA and walk often. it's great. Doesn't LA have literally the most polluted air in the country? Doesn't sound great for walking.

No, not unless there is an inversion or a nesrby forest fire going on. LA has really cleaned up a lot since the 70s, even SLC has worse air now.

Re: Great Divide in How Americans Commute to Work

#147

Post by ArtDev »

njarboe wrote: post #123
justaguyhere wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Outside of cities like NY, it is actually dangerous to walk. There aren't sidewalks, drivers are actually hostile towards those on foot and on bikes. American cities are built for cars and cars only.

Almost every city in America has sidewalks. I guess you might be technically correct that "Outside of cities like NY" if "like" means "has sidewalks", but that would exclude almost 100% of cities.

I have lived exclusively in the Western Coastal states and 100% of the cities I have lived in do not have consistent sidewalk coverage. For example: Seattle, Sacramento, Olympia, Portland and especially other rural cities I have lived in.

American cities are designed for cars. Not people or people on bikes.

You would think that new developments would not continue this insanity and yet they are still allowed by city planners to cut corners.

Re: Great Divide in How Americans Commute to Work

#148

Post by ArtDev »

decebalus1 wrote: post #96
bloomca wrote: post #27

I don't think there is such a great divide. The greater divide is between people who own a car (or cars) and who do not, however, seems for USA it is a divide between New York City and the rest of the country. Also, I can comment on one thing I personally enjoy a lot – walking. I lived in many European cities, and recently moved to USA, so I can comment on it. To be able to walk, you need to live close enough to your…

The only city I lived in which resembled the pedestrian friendliness I grew up in Europe was Portland. Although distances are generous, a combination of public transit - bicycling and walking made Portland a pretty nice and safe place to be a pedestrian.

Lots of parts of Portland do not have sidewalks. Luckily, for now, there is not enough traffic for it to be dangerous.

Re: Great Divide in How Americans Commute to Work

#149

Post by hannasanarion »

alchemism wrote: post #8
lordnacho wrote: post #2

Would be really interesting to see this done on a map of Europe. You'd think there's a lot more public transit used. As a visitor to the US, the main thing that strikes me is always the vast amount of car related space there. Wider roads, massive car parks. Places with no sidewalk! And I'm also surprised at the two places I thought would have more public transport usage. Really, only 30% of NYC? I guess it's sparse o…

The mass transit systems outside of NYC proper are designed to feed people in and out of the city core in two large waves, and [are] not designed to move people around the larger urbanized region (the "Tri-State area") outside of those two waves. So for the large majority of residents, a car will still be a necessity. Even Manhattanites will eventually feel the need buy/rent a car so they can do things like go to a f…

That is true of all public transit systems, period. If you want to get from Bayonne to Yonkers, you're going to have to go through the central hub of Manhattan, just like if you want to get from Garching to Unterschleißheim, you're going to have to go through the central hub of Munich.

This is just the nature of public transit outside city centers: they will have a hub-and-spokes shape. That's because this shape suits the needs of pretty much everybody: travel from one spoke to another is way less common than travel to and from the center, and if you really need that route and can't afford the time of going through the hub, most metros cover the concentric routes it with lighter options (like two-digit NJTransit busses and the Hudson-Bergen light rail).

The corner cases of suburb-to-suburb trips and short distance vacations aren't important enough to necessitate complete infrastructure capitulation to drivers.

And for the vast majority of New Yorkers, a car isn't necessary. Car ownership is around 45% in New York City, and that number goes way down if you exclude Staten Island and the outer parts of Queens and Brooklyn that don't get subway service.

Re: Great Divide in How Americans Commute to Work

#150

Post by clairity »

zjaffee wrote: post #124
clairity wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

do you live in LA and know this firsthand or are you repeating a cliché? i live in LA and walk often. it's great. the weather is awesome (60's and sunny today, in the middle of winter), i have dozens of good restaurants and cafes within walking distance, as is most of my shopping needs. parks, theaters, museums, bars, and other entertainment can be easily reached by walking. LA is a big city so not everything is righ…

Sounds like you live in downtown, as that's the only neighborhood that fits all of those things within walking distance. The majority of people who live in LA, live somewhere nestled into the bigger sprawl that is the region. While there are plenty of neighborhoods that have walkable aspects, the city is by no means walkable (even with transit) to huge portions of the city.

i don't. downtown is dense but isn't remarkable for walkability in LA (until relatively recently it wasn't even particularly walkable).

my listed criteria wasn't even complete, just what came to mind in the 30 seconds i thought about it. there are plenty of neighborhoods that are walkable in LA (silverlake, hollywood, highland park, even north hollywood, etc.). the whole city doesn't need to be reachable by foot to be a walkable neighborhood.

sounds like your bar may be set particularly high or your assumptions about what you need to walk to may be extraordinary.

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