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On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

gwern.net

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Re: On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

#141

Post by graeme »

tux1968 wrote: post #119
graeme wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the author of the piece just made a poor inference. Air cleaning isn't necessarily the same as lowering co2. That said, seems there are some succulents that do most of their co2 intake at night. Those would work best for co2. But you would need....at least 30-40 of them. Opening a window, by contrast, works extremely well, and quickly. However, this requires non-polluted outside air. Else you're exchanging lo…

Opening a window is just a bit too expensive in the -20 degree weather we're getting around here right now :-)

I don't think a tiny crack makes that much difference. I also live in a -20 area. Also the colder it is, the easier venting happens, so a small crack has the same effect as having the window open much more in summer.

I can't remember the total, but I recall seeing a calculation about this and it didn't amount to very much energy, especially if the bedroom heat isn't on super high.

Anecdotal, but I've heard the Germans often tend to keep a window open a bit year round, and I know my grandma did even in winter. She was pretty frugal too.

Re: On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

#142

Post by clairity »

thatcat wrote: post #137
drpgq wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder at what point will people have active systems to lower their CO2 below ambient in their homes.

You mean plants?

ha, i actually bought a bunch of plants from the nasa list a year-ish ago to help reduce co2 & voc levels: https://www.healthyandnaturalworld.com/best-air-filtering-ho...

Re: On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

#143

Post by dTal »

scottdupoy wrote: post #123
DocG wrote: post #29

I was lucky to get my hands on 5 proper co2 sensors from university, while I was teaching and working. So plenty of test places. What I found: -Just a couple of hours in a office, without ventilation spikes the co2 enough to make everyone dizzy and tired by the end of the day. Keeping eye on the meter and ventilating properly, increased everyones productivity and people werent so tired by the end of the day. - Classr…

Are atmospheric CO2 levels rising to an extent that currently projected levels would have a noticeable effect in the same way?

We're on track to reach 1000ppm by the end of the century, if levels continue to rise at their present (accelerating) rate. This is about the threshold where cognitive effects become reliably detectable. However, such levels also bring climate change on such an apocalyptic scale (4.5+ degree temperature rise) that industrial activity could well wind down as society collapses.

Re: On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

#144

Post by jrockway »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #121
s0rce wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

except a heat pump which is far more efficient

Until you get to below zero.

I don't think that's quite true. The efficiency merely falls to 100%. (The laws of thermodynamics demand it.)

Now, converting electricity to heat may not be as cheap as converting, say, natural gas to heat (thus making the heat pump un-economical when not pumping any heat)... but you do get heat out of it.

Re: On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

#145

Post by throw564d »

hawski wrote: post #122

With every similar news I feel dumb. Because my parents and my grandparents used to say same things. It was easy to dismiss all the advice as grumbling, but I really should refresh air before sleeping, humidify air in heating season, eat more vegetables... etc. etc.

Drinking cold drinks in winter makes you cough.

Re: On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

#146

Post by tinus_hn »

philippnagel wrote: post #92
yoodenvranx wrote: post #86

Is it just coincidence that Tom Scott uploaded a video about CO2 and its influences at almost the exact time the gwerns link was submitted? https://youtu.be/1Nh_vxpycEA

Wasn't there a recent discussion on HN on the Baader-Meinhof Phenomenon?

It appears it has become pretty fashionable to mention it, it’s probably the next ‘skeuomorphic’.

Re: On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

#147

Post by simpsond »

simonebrunozzi wrote: post #140
DocG wrote: post #29

I was lucky to get my hands on 5 proper co2 sensors from university, while I was teaching and working. So plenty of test places. What I found: -Just a couple of hours in a office, without ventilation spikes the co2 enough to make everyone dizzy and tired by the end of the day. Keeping eye on the meter and ventilating properly, increased everyones productivity and people werent so tired by the end of the day. - Classr…

Can you suggest a commercial CO2 sensor that you think is accurate enough? Most of the ones available on Amazon.com seem to be quite amateurish.

Vaisala makes good probes, acceptable for use in life science applications. They are expensive and you need an rs485 adapter for the ones I used. The serial protocol is nice and simple though.

Re: On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

#148

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

jrockway wrote: post #144
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until you get to below zero.

I don't think that's quite true. The efficiency merely falls to 100%. (The laws of thermodynamics demand it.) Now, converting electricity to heat may not be as cheap as converting, say, natural gas to heat (thus making the heat pump un-economical when not pumping any heat)... but you do get heat out of it.

That's true. But heat pumps don't have the gross energy capability as a gas heater. To get the equivalent of an 85,000 BTU gas furnace you'd need to be pumping 25 kW through your heat pump at that point.

Re: On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

#149

Post by greenleaf2 »

graeme wrote: post #75
greenleaf2 wrote: post #54

There's one big problem with this entire idea of co2 levels affecting sleep quality or humans in general: Even though there are cognitive effects of CO2, most often the CO2 levels in indoor rooms are simply a sign of low oxygen levels. In fact, there should be an inverse relationship between CO2 and oxygen in rooms. So an experiments would need to take this into account and supply pure oxygen to make up for the oxyge…

Good observation. That said, co2 and o2 should move pretty much in tandem if the source of high co2 is human breathing + limited ventilation, right? This could potentially account for why no ill effects of high co2 were found in submarines. Presumably o2 supply there is well maintained. Do household air quality standards include o2 levels?

Most of the CO2 stays in the body, which ultimately means that significantly more O2 is used up than CO2 is introduced back into the air again.

The comment about submarines is highly interesting to me, I will look into the studies! If you have any sources about that to share, I would love to read them.

Re: On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

#150

Post by dTal »

baxtr wrote: post #24
Shank wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not any time soon, as far as I'm aware. According to [0] a fancy article from Business Insider, the rate of increase is 2ppm/yr, on average. But many studies suggest cognitive effects of CO2 levels as low as 1,000ppm. See: https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/doi/10.1289/ehp.1510037 [0]: https://www.businessinsider.com/carbon-dioxide-record-human-...

Thanks! So 2ppm/year gives us another 300 yrs to top 1000 ppm. I guess we’re safe for now! Rock on

It won't always be 2ppm/year. The rate increases yearly. We can expect 1000ppm somewhere around 2100, perhaps a bit after.

Of course 1000ppm has far nastier effects than just those on human cognition.

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