I take it they would have gotten away with it if they did it from Russia?
DOJ: Hackers broke into an SEC database and made millions from inside info
141–150 of 198 posts
Re: DOJ: Hackers broke into an SEC database and made millions from inside info
#142People make money off advance information all the time. Often you can see that in the price action -- take this for example: https://imgur.com/mJq1OcY Three days before a positive press release, demand pressure beings to drive up the price. Coincidence? I'm too jaded to believe that.
insider trading has to be the easiest damn thing in the world. discreetly tell someone you know in person a piece of insider knowledge, and let them profit off it, then reimburse you some how. i find it insane people think this isn't happening virtually 100% of the time.
Re: DOJ: Hackers broke into an SEC database and made millions from inside info
#143Earlier quoted context omitted.
> On the other hand, we need some fairness in a market American insider trading law has nothing to do with fairness. It is based on theft of information. In this case, the hacker’s stole information from the SEC that belonged to the reporting companies. (This is a commonly misunderstood alley of securities law.)
That's interesting. I was digging around, and this piece[1] goes into detail, but early on they summarized the rationale for insider trading laws. "One objection is that it violates the fiduciary duties that corporate employees, as agents, owe to their principals, the shareholders (Wilgus 1910)." That supports the theft formulation. "A related objection is that, because managers control the production of, disclosure…
These are economic arguments. I was speaking solely to the law.
Re: DOJ: Hackers broke into an SEC database and made millions from inside info
#144Earlier quoted context omitted.
That’s theft from the corporation they work for. GP is 100% correct in this case. Just read Matt Levine’s Money Stuff. He goes over this stuff a lot.
I'm not disagreeing with you because I have no clue about this stuff, but man that is an odd usage of the word 'theft'. Sounds more like improper use to me, e.g., getting a speeding ticket while using a company truck. I didn't steal the truck, but I used it in a way which is unlawful.
Well, say your company is going to buy another company. You know about it, and buy shares of tbe other company ahead of the public anouncement.
You are essentially stealing from your own company, since your purchase of shares will drive up price and result in your employer paying more than they otherwise would have.
Though for the record, I think insider trading should be legal, or at least should be a civil instead of a criminal matter.
The purpose of financial markets is decentralized price discovery and preventing the trading of certain types of non-public information is totally counterproductive in that regard.
Re: DOJ: Hackers broke into an SEC database and made millions from inside info
#145Earlier quoted context omitted.
America historically was not very federalized, and being able to just abandon your life and move out west is a key part of the country's mythology, if not the DNA of the country. So there have always been attempts to resist a national ID system, and the SSN was originally not supposed to be used for this purpose. Of course in 2019 this is basically a moot point if you want to be integrated into society, but even then…
I have thought about this a little bit. If this is something Americans believe in, its time to make it official. Make a legal proceeding where you can "start again", so that nobody from your old life can trace you.
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Re: DOJ: Hackers broke into an SEC database and made millions from inside info
#146Earlier quoted context omitted.
The problem with identity in the USA has always been a religious problem more than anything else. All legislation aimed around allowing people to be identified by numbers has been killed due to the whole "mark of the beast" .. "can't buy sell or trade without your number" revelations rhetoric. As religion has less of an impact on people's daily lives, I expect this to change, but in the past it's been the one thing t…
If its primarily a religious problem why do countries less religious than the US have similar concepts? SINs in Canada, NINs in the UK, etc. etc
ID number in South Africa. Assigned at birth, used for opening of any account. Not considered private at all, can be requested by any company who might want to check that you are you. Also: ID card with number, photo and details on it, separate from drivers license.
Re: DOJ: Hackers broke into an SEC database and made millions from inside info
#147Earlier quoted context omitted.
70% is still very very high. They didnt make billions because they probably started with little capital.
70% is extremely high, you can easily get rich with a 51% advantage and making enough small bets to invoke the law of large numbers.
That, and depending on the companies they got data on (i.e. any number of widely traded stocks with large market caps), they could have had a LOT of volume to play with. This is a big deal and it's mind-boggling that the breach happened.
Re: DOJ: Hackers broke into an SEC database and made millions from inside info
#148Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Is that something that goes against the American culture? Conservative Christian fundamentalist groups have, ever since Reagan, likened a national ID card to "the mark of the beast", citing Revelation 13's prophecy that no one could buy or sell goods without the number of the beast, and the reference to God's chosen people that refuse the mark of the Beast. When a small but meaningful fraction of your constituents…
Then again, you could be like my uncle. His SSN is 666-66-6666. He's not particularly religious...
There’s a chance your uncle made that one up himself: “No SSNs with an area number of 666 have been or will be assigned.”[0]
Re: DOJ: Hackers broke into an SEC database and made millions from inside info
#149Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why didn't they just decide to delay the posting by 30 seconds? It's not like that would deter regular users but it completely eliminates the high speed trading case.
Uncertain - I'm not exactly the decision-maker. But I can think of two reasons: 1) They say that earnings will come out at a certain time, so they better be out at that time or else the SEC comes after them. If they just posted earnings as coming out at say 12:00:30 instead of 12:00:00, that just shifts the problem 30 seconds later. 2) The bots will just run for an extra 30 seconds, and will still have the advantage…
Accessors who really care would just hit it from multiple IP's? And keep adding distributed IP's until they got what they wanted.
Re: DOJ: Hackers broke into an SEC database and made millions from inside info
#150People make money off advance information all the time. Often you can see that in the price action -- take this for example: https://imgur.com/mJq1OcY Three days before a positive press release, demand pressure beings to drive up the price. Coincidence? I'm too jaded to believe that.
Some day I'd like to experiment with a press release driven trading strategy. I've seen plenty of cases where every man and his dog have been aware that $company sold $hugeNumber of $widgets, it can be open knowledge known industry wide, yet there is still a stock surge once the press release (or annual report or whatever) comes out.