Government shutdown: TLS certificates not renewed, many websites are down • Hacker News Board

Re: Government shutdown: TLS certificates not renewed, many websites are down

#141

Post by JamesBarney » Sun, Jan 13, 2019, 1:22 AM UTC

sparkie wrote: post #133

JamesBarney wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If given the option for a $2M toilet where "the locals are engaged", and takes 4 years to build, or a $300k toilet which is built in 6 months, which do you think most people would opt for? You and I both know this is not the cause of a 86% of expenditures. > The real problem is government is too damn big that it becomes impossible to separate out such concerns from every other aspect of government, and each time go…

> You and I both know this is not the cause of a 86% of expenditures. This is missing my point. The point is that if it were a private development, then they would be sacked and replaced. This isn't some isolated case and many areas of government are similarly ineffective. The problem is that you can't just replace the one area - the government isn't modular enough to fix its individual parts - it's a monolith. When…

> When I say the government is too big - it's trying to do too many things, and does most of them badly. Markets are better at selecting for efficiency than a single centralized entity. Each 'ministry' or whatnot should be a distinct entity, and should operate like a for-profit business. If one ministry is performing poorly, it could be replaced with a different company in a free market. The threat that they could lose such a contract would force them to perform. No performance, no job - like the rest of us.

This is just passing the buck. Right now the government bid out the creation of a bathroom and it was done expensively. But you are arguing that if the government bid out the entire parks system it would be done really well? I don't follow the logic. In my experience the more complex the RFP the more the sophisticated parties(the bidders) are going to fuck the unsophisticated party(the government). It's easy to specify what a bathroom should be and take the lowest bid. It's way harder to do that with the park's department.

And not everyone thinks the Swedish model is a success. Lots of people blamed them for causing Sweden to have some of the fastest dropping test scores in the world. And I'm not arguing privatization is always a failure. I'm just arguing that it's not always a success, and that it's success and failure is dependent upon how it's done. I'm not sure why you are so privatization is always a success every time when clearly the historical record says it's a mix of successes and failures.

You argue the government should be smaller. 5/6ths of the government is insurance(medicare/medicaid/social security)+military and then 1/6th is everything else. That includes education, protecting the environment, funding research, parks etc..

I would love the government to be smaller, I don't think we need to spend so much on the military but I do like social security, medicare, and medicaid. I don't want to be in the position where I have to decide between mortgaging my house or letting an elderly relative die of cancer. And it's really nice we don't have to make those decisions.

Re: Government shutdown: TLS certificates not renewed, many websites are down

#142

Post by leereeves » Sun, Jan 13, 2019, 1:36 AM UTC

aaronbrethorst wrote: post #126

Spivak wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last I checked, grocery stores and restruants are still open and planes are still in the sky. The remainder are people who are on the invisible end of society. This isn't to say that the shutdown isn't a big deal but it should be grounded in the reality of who and what it actually affects. The typical American could, at this point, realistically not notice anything is happening if it weren't for the news.

grocery stores and restruants are still open I'm not saying they're closed; I'm talking about food inspections. Remember the romaine scare from November? Guess what won't be flagged early during this government shutdown? While people should take seriously the recent outbreak of E. coli food poisoning that triggered the alert, the fact that it was flagged early shows that the agency once known as the CDC deserves its…

The romaine/E. coli scare in November was first detected by doctors and hospitals who reported infections to the CDC, which is still open.

It might be harder for the FDA to track down the source of a similar outbreak now, since they are partially (but not completely) shut down, but we would know about it.

Re: Government shutdown: TLS certificates not renewed, many websites are down

#143

Post by fzeroracer » Sun, Jan 13, 2019, 1:36 AM UTC

sparkie wrote: post #106

ok_coo wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife came home yesterday and told me that her work said if the shutdown continues in late February - March that they'll probably have to cut her position along with others at her workplace (they're federally-funded). If that happens, I will likely be forced to quit my current job as well and find a higher paying job to help compensate while she looks for new work. I'm currently paid under market rate, but I love m…

Firstly, I'm sorry for you and your wife's situation, and don't intend to sound like an insensitive dick, but I'm a bit fed up of this appeal to emotion about the livelihoods of federal workers missing a paycheck as if these cases are somehow unique and couldn't happen to anyone at any time. No job is secure, and anyone could lose their jobs for a huge range of reasons. Government workers have some of the most secure…

What, exactly, does your comment add other than complaining about some imaginary entitlement strawman?

Government jobs are far from secure depending on the department you work in and the fact that a lot of people are suffering because of pure political grandstanding is something I would hope anyone can relate to. Whether it's through having bad management hurt the workers, CEO nonsense or more. Of course anyone can lose their job and if you've ever gone through the pain of being laid off, you should be able to relate.

Re: Government shutdown: TLS certificates not renewed, many websites are down

#144

Post by fzeroracer » Sun, Jan 13, 2019, 1:39 AM UTC

thaumasiotes wrote: post #129

aaronbrethorst wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

grocery stores and restruants are still open I'm not saying they're closed; I'm talking about food inspections. Remember the romaine scare from November? Guess what won't be flagged early during this government shutdown? While people should take seriously the recent outbreak of E. coli food poisoning that triggered the alert, the fact that it was flagged early shows that the agency once known as the CDC deserves its…

> Maybe typical Americans should pay more attention to their neighbors and friends. None of the groups you listed are uniformly distributed across society. "Six social groups each containing 0 people on food stamps, and one social group in which people are mostly on food stamps" is closer to reality than "seven social groups each of which have about 1/7 of the membership on food stamps". The whole point of living in…

>The whole point of living in a nice neighborhood is that none of your neighbors or friends are on food stamps.

Can you explain further? Because it sure sounds like you're somehow equating people being on food stamps as being bad neighbors or friends. I'd like you to explain your logic here.

Re: Government shutdown: TLS certificates not renewed, many websites are down

#145

Post by thaumasiotes » Sun, Jan 13, 2019, 2:00 AM UTC

fzeroracer wrote: post #144

thaumasiotes wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe typical Americans should pay more attention to their neighbors and friends. None of the groups you listed are uniformly distributed across society. "Six social groups each containing 0 people on food stamps, and one social group in which people are mostly on food stamps" is closer to reality than "seven social groups each of which have about 1/7 of the membership on food stamps". The whole point of living in…

>The whole point of living in a nice neighborhood is that none of your neighbors or friends are on food stamps. Can you explain further? Because it sure sounds like you're somehow equating people being on food stamps as being bad neighbors or friends. I'd like you to explain your logic here.

A neighborhood full of people on food stamps is a bad neighborhood. Those people are the people who the residents of good neighborhoods are trying to stay away from.

They are fairly likely to be good neighbors to each other, in that impoverished people are generally part of a favor-trading network with family and neighbors. But they are undesirable neighbors to other people.

Re: Government shutdown: TLS certificates not renewed, many websites are down

#146

Post by sparkie » Sun, Jan 13, 2019, 2:13 AM UTC

fzeroracer wrote: post #143

sparkie wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firstly, I'm sorry for you and your wife's situation, and don't intend to sound like an insensitive dick, but I'm a bit fed up of this appeal to emotion about the livelihoods of federal workers missing a paycheck as if these cases are somehow unique and couldn't happen to anyone at any time. No job is secure, and anyone could lose their jobs for a huge range of reasons. Government workers have some of the most secure…

What, exactly, does your comment add other than complaining about some imaginary entitlement strawman? Government jobs are far from secure depending on the department you work in and the fact that a lot of people are suffering because of pure political grandstanding is something I would hope anyone can relate to. Whether it's through having bad management hurt the workers, CEO nonsense or more. Of course anyone can l…

It's not imaginary. How often do you see people being interviewed on the news and bringing their babies into view? I'm not complaining that people are hurt by their funding, I'm complaining about how they're using their alleged personal struggles as political weapon.

Anyway, I'm not intending to get into a flamewar again. Let's just agree to disagree.

Re: Government shutdown: TLS certificates not renewed, many websites are down

#147

Post by fzeroracer » Sun, Jan 13, 2019, 2:26 AM UTC

thaumasiotes wrote: post #145

fzeroracer wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The whole point of living in a nice neighborhood is that none of your neighbors or friends are on food stamps. Can you explain further? Because it sure sounds like you're somehow equating people being on food stamps as being bad neighbors or friends. I'd like you to explain your logic here.

A neighborhood full of people on food stamps is a bad neighborhood. Those people are the people who the residents of good neighborhoods are trying to stay away from. They are fairly likely to be good neighbors to each other, in that impoverished people are generally part of a favor-trading network with family and neighbors. But they are undesirable neighbors to other people.

And where, exactly, is your proof? Why would people be on food stamps be considered bad for a neighborhood, and what do you mean by 'Those people'? What makes them 'undesirable'?

I've lived near people on food stamps before, either due to temporary circumstances or permanent ones. I'd like you to properly explain your reasoning here considering it's ringing 'White Flight' alarms in my head.

Re: Government shutdown: TLS certificates not renewed, many websites are down

#148

Post by fzeroracer » Sun, Jan 13, 2019, 2:27 AM UTC

sparkie wrote: post #146

fzeroracer wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What, exactly, does your comment add other than complaining about some imaginary entitlement strawman? Government jobs are far from secure depending on the department you work in and the fact that a lot of people are suffering because of pure political grandstanding is something I would hope anyone can relate to. Whether it's through having bad management hurt the workers, CEO nonsense or more. Of course anyone can l…

It's not imaginary. How often do you see people being interviewed on the news and bringing their babies into view? I'm not complaining that people are hurt by their funding, I'm complaining about how they're using their alleged personal struggles as political weapon. Anyway, I'm not intending to get into a flamewar again. Let's just agree to disagree.

If you weren't intending to get into a flamewar, you wouldn't have effectively called the parent comment entitled. People use their struggles as a 'political weapon' because it turns out, when people are harmed by politics they want to share how politics harm them.

Re: Government shutdown: TLS certificates not renewed, many websites are down

#149

Post by thaumasiotes » Sun, Jan 13, 2019, 2:39 AM UTC

fzeroracer wrote: post #147

thaumasiotes wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A neighborhood full of people on food stamps is a bad neighborhood. Those people are the people who the residents of good neighborhoods are trying to stay away from. They are fairly likely to be good neighbors to each other, in that impoverished people are generally part of a favor-trading network with family and neighbors. But they are undesirable neighbors to other people.

And where, exactly, is your proof? Why would people be on food stamps be considered bad for a neighborhood, and what do you mean by 'Those people'? What makes them 'undesirable'? I've lived near people on food stamps before, either due to temporary circumstances or permanent ones. I'd like you to properly explain your reasoning here considering it's ringing 'White Flight' alarms in my head.

> I'd like you to properly explain your reasoning here considering it's ringing 'White Flight' alarms in my head.

This... sounds like you agree that the residents of good neighborhoods are trying to stay out of bad ones. What are you trying to dispute?

Re: Government shutdown: TLS certificates not renewed, many websites are down

#150

Post by dragontamer » Sun, Jan 13, 2019, 3:44 AM UTC

tzs wrote: post #139

dragontamer wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The House and Senate can override the president with a super majority. They don't technically need the president's approval. Senate is the place where bills die. You've got not only the Republican-controlled majority, but Democrats can filibuster anything they disagree with in the Senate. So to pass the Senate normally, you need to have Republicans agree, Democrats "Not Protest". A Supermajority Senate override of…

The Senate unanimously agreed to a spending bill near the end of 2018. The 2019 House passed a version of that bill, and that went to the 2019 Senate, where McConnell won't let it come up for a vote. So, we do have a spending plan available that does have widespread approval among both parties in the Senate, enough to override a veto if the Senators who support it would also support overriding a veto.

That was before Trump put forth his intention to veto.

Republicans don't want to fracture the party and embarrass themselves with such a vote. McConnell will never let the bill come back to the floor.