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AWS gives open source the middle finger?

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Re: AWS gives open source the middle finger?

#141

Post by Erwin »

vshan wrote: post #102
int_19h wrote: post #29

Amazon was using MongoDB without paying for it. MongoDB found that objectionable, and changed the license such that Amazon would either have to pay, or stop using it. Amazon stopped using it, and started using its own in-house implementation instead (presumably because it was cheaper to develop it than to pay MongoDB). So, MongoDB got exactly what they asked for. It's just that, when they forced Amazon to make a choi…

It's built on top of PostgreSQL.

It certainly reads similar to the Aurora PostgreSQL technical specs, but I suspect they just have a generic Aurora layer, used by MySQL and PG both which can be used by a document database.

Re: AWS gives open source the middle finger?

#142

Post by throw2016 »

We are in the middle of a transformation and its clear open source will have to change. There is little stopping cloud providers and other well funded parties monetizing your projects leaving little room for you to.

Because they don't have to focus on development they can divert their resources to marketing, adding the syrup on top to 'ease use' and ride the hype wave while the original developers are dismissed as 'technical' folks who do not understand marketing when the fact is they do not have time left over from development, or the resources.

It's perfectly legitimate to expect to sustain yourself while building open source products and projects. Unfortunately we are flooded with one sided superficial perspectives and short term narratives that look at open source projects as if its a crime to expect to make some money while not even examining slightly the parasitic models of cloud providers and others who in effect hijack open source projects with marketing.

The end game is few can compete with the resources, reach and engineering of behemoths like AWS, Azure, GCP and others. And at the customer end the cloud is unavoidable and thus will only see increased adoption. This is not only going to affect open source but dismantle entire groups of software and hardware ecosystems.

The only way forward seems open source projects that leverage these cloud platforms to provide some additional functionality, but these projects will be intimately tied to these platforms and not 'open' as we understand the term.

Re: AWS gives open source the middle finger?

#143

Post by eeZah7Ux »

weego wrote: post #131
fogetti wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I don't understand it either. There is a company which puts 300 M$ effort into developing something and then another company is using the first company's brand recognition to get a competitive edge while offering zero added value (And no, hosting mongodb in AWS not a new thing, only uninformed people would assume so. When I look around I find services like Scalegrid or MDB Atlas itself which is exactly the thin…

This is literally the future open source promised and people wanted: the freedom for a business to be flexible in regards to technology and not get tied into unpleasant vendor contracts and demands. There's no point in, or place for, spirit of the system vs letter of the system discussions or calls to morality. Mongo does not deserve to survive / exist if it can't make it's offering better than a competitors. Would M…

> This is literally the future open source promised and people wanted: the freedom for a business to be flexible in regards to technology and not get tied into unpleasant vendor contracts and demands.

Oh the irony. Open source is just a development model, while Free Software, if anything, it meant to provide freedom to all users, not just business.

Reinforcing the public cloud oligopoly only reduces such freedom.

Re: AWS gives open source the middle finger?

#144

Post by Aramgutang »

tanilama wrote: post #26
nemothekid wrote: post #24

> However, developers are technically savvy enough to distinguish between the real thing and a poor imitation. MongoDB will continue to outperform any impersonations in the market This feels like a MongoDB sponsored post. How badly would you have to fuck up to be considered a poor imitation of MongoDB? In any case I don't see how having their own hosted version of MongoDB is a middle finger to open source, but Aurora…

How credible techcrunch should be considered a reliable journalism source here? This one smells pretty much like a money article

That sentence was presented clearly as a quote from the MongoDB CEO, and followed immediately by "[t]hat’s a pretty feisty comment."

I don't entirely disagree with your overall assessment, but it could just be a case of clickbait journalism, rather than payola.

Re: AWS gives open source the middle finger?

#145

Post by ex_amazon_sde »

notyourwork wrote: post #6
Pfhreak wrote: post #3

I left AWS after six years of working there wholly because of their restrictive policies about developing software in your spare time -- especially if you were thinking about working on a game. I recognize this article is about a product offering of AWS, and not their internal policies towards contributing to open source, but the two are linked in my mind and I'm not all surprised to see a headline like this.

Every company has the same attitude in my experience, this ins't unique to Amazon. edit: For those down voting instead of just disagreeing provide a company and their policy. All the companies I've worked at have been the same as Amazon more or less and all my friends have similar employment clauses.

I worked for Amazon and various other companies. Most of them did not have those restrictions.

Re: AWS gives open source the middle finger?

#146

Post by SmellyGeekBoy »

saagarjha wrote: post #109
int_19h wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft doesn't. You're only required to get pre-approval in case of conflicts of interest.

> You're only required to get pre-approval in case of conflicts of interest. Given the extremely diverse set of things that Microsoft works on, much of which is likely done without you being disclosed on it, how can you be sure that your project is not a conflict of interest?

By asking?

Re: AWS gives open source the middle finger?

#147

Post by klez »

JohannesH wrote: post #134
nybble41 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does this even have to do with Open Source? MongoDB isn't Open Source; not any more. Their new Server Side Public License is not an OSI-approved Open Source license, and the intent of the license change goes directly against the 6th criteria of the Open Source Definition ("No Discrimination Against Fields of Endeavor").

While I agree with what you said it is important to note that the OSI isn't the defining authority on what is to be considered open source.

I keep seeing this sentence (or variations thereof) on every thread about this topic.

It sounds weird to me that people think a foundation created by Perens and Raymond (et al.), the people who defined Open Source, and wrote the Open Source Definition is not the defining authority on what open source is.

What gives?

Re: AWS gives open source the middle finger?

#148

Post by geezerjay »

mcv wrote: post #137
geezerjay wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it didn’t protect them from rich freeloaders. You offer a free software package to the world, so that anyone can use it as they see fit. Some guy uses your software package. How exactly has that guy became a freeloader in this story?

Because they have money and don't use it to support the community. Nobody is saying it explicitly, but of course we want small indie people to be able to use stuff for free while rich corporations foot the bill. But it's hard to codify that in a way that doesn't explicitly so, and it's hard to enforce a rule where something is free only if you're small or poor, but it costs money if you're big and rich. And to see th…

> Because they have money

Seriously?

Re: AWS gives open source the middle finger?

#149

Post by sah2ed »

amelius wrote: post #138
spectre256 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I "accidentally" worked at amazon for a few weeks when a company I had just joined was acquired by them. I knew it was time to start looking when I was informed that I had to get prior permission to do ANY open source contributions even on my own hardware on my own time. That's just not feasible logistically and above and beyond the general "don't write open source that competes with us or on our our time/hardware wi…

I don't see how that is legally enforceable if they pay you only for 8 hours/day as opposed to 24 hours/day.

Not that I agree with Amazon's policy for no open source contributions, but imagine that an employee decides to spend the 6-8hrs out of the remaining 24hrs meant for sleep on something other than sleep, what do you think will happen? That employee's productivity during those critical 8hrs of the day that is being paid for by the employer would drop like a rock, because whether we like it or not, we need time to recharge our batteries.

Re: AWS gives open source the middle finger?

#150

Post by cmsj »

sah2ed wrote: post #149
amelius wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how that is legally enforceable if they pay you only for 8 hours/day as opposed to 24 hours/day.

Not that I agree with Amazon's policy for no open source contributions, but imagine that an employee decides to spend the 6-8hrs out of the remaining 24hrs meant for sleep on something other than sleep, what do you think will happen? That employee's productivity during those critical 8hrs of the day that is being paid for by the employer would drop like a rock, because whether we like it or not, we need time to recha…

By that argument they should also prohibit people from playing competitive chess outside of work, because it's mentally challenging.
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