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How ‘Baldur’s Gate’ Saved the Computer RPG

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Re: How ‘Baldur’s Gate’ Saved the Computer RPG

#141

Post by thom »

tomc1985 wrote: post #106
Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #98

OK, so in 1995 there were few computer RPGs. True. In fact I distinctly remember myself at that time, as a huge CRPG fan, thinking that they were bad times for PC RPGs, and hoping for better times. But 1996 was the year of The Elder Scrolls II: Daggerfall, one of the best RPGs of all time (IMO, way better than Baldur's) that would later continue into a saga that is still top notch today. In 1997, Fallout came out. I'…

I do remember feeling of being in something of RPG drought when Baldur's Gate came along. At least I believe that was the sentiment expressed by PC Games magazine, which I was reading pretty heavily at the time. I don't think ES or Fallout were on my radar at that time but you're the first person I've heard with very positive opinions of Daggerfall; most of the ES nostalgics seem to pine for Morrowind. Baldur's Gate…

Daggerfall was absolutely wonderful. It was like Elite but a fantasy RPG. Morrowind felt like a _huge_ step back, and even Skyrim falls short of the scale and sense of wilderness and exploration.

Re: How ‘Baldur’s Gate’ Saved the Computer RPG

#142

Post by thom »

Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #126
tomc1985 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do remember feeling of being in something of RPG drought when Baldur's Gate came along. At least I believe that was the sentiment expressed by PC Games magazine, which I was reading pretty heavily at the time. I don't think ES or Fallout were on my radar at that time but you're the first person I've heard with very positive opinions of Daggerfall; most of the ES nostalgics seem to pine for Morrowind. Baldur's Gate…

Morrowind does have more following, but Daggerfall has an extraordinarily staunch user base. 22 years after its release, its Reddit and various forums are pretty active and there is a full remake in Unity getting close to full functionality, with all code recreated from scratch, and people are already creating various mods for it. (obligatory link: https://www.dfworkshop.net/ ). Daggerfall and Morrowind had a quite d…

Agree with every word of this. As ridiculous as it sounds, Daggerfall is probably the only RPG I've played where I felt so much ownership of my character that I spend significant time clothes shopping.

Re: How ‘Baldur’s Gate’ Saved the Computer RPG

#143

Post by [deleted] »

tomc1985 wrote: post #106
Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #98

OK, so in 1995 there were few computer RPGs. True. In fact I distinctly remember myself at that time, as a huge CRPG fan, thinking that they were bad times for PC RPGs, and hoping for better times. But 1996 was the year of The Elder Scrolls II: Daggerfall, one of the best RPGs of all time (IMO, way better than Baldur's) that would later continue into a saga that is still top notch today. In 1997, Fallout came out. I'…

I do remember feeling of being in something of RPG drought when Baldur's Gate came along. At least I believe that was the sentiment expressed by PC Games magazine, which I was reading pretty heavily at the time. I don't think ES or Fallout were on my radar at that time but you're the first person I've heard with very positive opinions of Daggerfall; most of the ES nostalgics seem to pine for Morrowind. Baldur's Gate…

[deleted]

Re: How ‘Baldur’s Gate’ Saved the Computer RPG

#144

Post by grawprog »

Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #126
tomc1985 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do remember feeling of being in something of RPG drought when Baldur's Gate came along. At least I believe that was the sentiment expressed by PC Games magazine, which I was reading pretty heavily at the time. I don't think ES or Fallout were on my radar at that time but you're the first person I've heard with very positive opinions of Daggerfall; most of the ES nostalgics seem to pine for Morrowind. Baldur's Gate…

Morrowind does have more following, but Daggerfall has an extraordinarily staunch user base. 22 years after its release, its Reddit and various forums are pretty active and there is a full remake in Unity getting close to full functionality, with all code recreated from scratch, and people are already creating various mods for it. (obligatory link: https://www.dfworkshop.net/ ). Daggerfall and Morrowind had a quite d…

>The dungeons were also procedurally generated, and so labyrinthine that you could literally spend hours exploring a single dungeon. This is something that some people hated

This right here is actually probably what I liked most about daggerfall. One of the things i've found most disappointing about both oblivion and skyrim was their dungeons. Almsot all of then are just a straight path through, i'm not sure if i've ever found an item worth finding and then, especially skyrim, they all seem to have a convenient escape back door that brings you back to the beginning of the dungeon.

I've always felt exploring large winding, mazelike dungeons full of traps, monsters, puzzles and weird things to be one of the staples of a good RPG. Tabletop or computer. Daggerfall's dungeons feel more like the scope of a tabletop RPG dungeon.

I've always felt dungeons should almost be little mini adventures on their own. They should be dangerous and tough to explore, there should be things worth finding, it should feel like you need to explore, like it's a dangerous place few save monsters and brave adventurers have tried to go through and by then end you should feel like you've accomplished something, whether you're more powerful or you've found some kind of cool treasure. There should be some kind of sense of accomplishment and reward for completing them.

I never really felt that way after the later elder scrolls dungeons. They were just places to go to complete a story objective or side quest, get to the end, get a cut scene or some item worse than something I can probably craft already, take the back door back to the beginning then move on to the next one.

I have to admit the 3d fallout games had slightly better 'dungeons' than the elder scrolls games, mostly because they tended to be kind of unique and kind of winding sometimes and there was usually at least useful things to find.

But i'd still like to see a modern open world RPG that focuses more on creating a good dungeon crawling experience to go along with it.

Re: How ‘Baldur’s Gate’ Saved the Computer RPG

#146

Post by [deleted] »

tomc1985 wrote: post #106
Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #98

OK, so in 1995 there were few computer RPGs. True. In fact I distinctly remember myself at that time, as a huge CRPG fan, thinking that they were bad times for PC RPGs, and hoping for better times. But 1996 was the year of The Elder Scrolls II: Daggerfall, one of the best RPGs of all time (IMO, way better than Baldur's) that would later continue into a saga that is still top notch today. In 1997, Fallout came out. I'…

I do remember feeling of being in something of RPG drought when Baldur's Gate came along. At least I believe that was the sentiment expressed by PC Games magazine, which I was reading pretty heavily at the time. I don't think ES or Fallout were on my radar at that time but you're the first person I've heard with very positive opinions of Daggerfall; most of the ES nostalgics seem to pine for Morrowind. Baldur's Gate…

[deleted]

Re: How ‘Baldur’s Gate’ Saved the Computer RPG

#148

Post by bduerst »

Kurtz79 wrote: post #54
ascendantlogic wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Divinity: Original Sin 1 and 2 come very close to recapturing that Baldur's Gate magic. I highly recommend them.

I have played OS 1 and it has the best combat of any CRPG I have ever played (think X-Com with magic). Plot, setting and characters I found quite unremarkable, though. But still the best "traditional" RPG I have played in many years.

D:OS 2 improves on 1 in many ways, especially in story.

They created characters with plot lines instead of relying on player-generated characters. It's not Shakespeare, but with Larian Studio's humor it is definitely worth playing.

Re: How ‘Baldur’s Gate’ Saved the Computer RPG

#149

Post by dmoy »

muro wrote: post #110
tomc1985 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do remember feeling of being in something of RPG drought when Baldur's Gate came along. At least I believe that was the sentiment expressed by PC Games magazine, which I was reading pretty heavily at the time. I don't think ES or Fallout were on my radar at that time but you're the first person I've heard with very positive opinions of Daggerfall; most of the ES nostalgics seem to pine for Morrowind. Baldur's Gate…

Daggerfall was a buggy mess or randomly generated, yet still always the same dungeons. No reason whatsoever to walk in the always-same, never ending landscape. The plot was good, the scale huge. Morrowind fixed all of that - much smaller scale, less generated stuff, excellent plot, few (er) bugs - it was actually possible to finish the game. Landscape with purpose, it was actually interesting to walk and explore.

> few (er)

heh. fewer, yes. few, no.

My favorite were the "why am I underneath the ground" or the "why is my screen now red until I reload the game?" bugs that happened all the time.

Re: How ‘Baldur’s Gate’ Saved the Computer RPG

#150

Post by bduerst »

izacus wrote: post #15
eclyps19 wrote: post #4

If you want to play a modern game that takes you back to Balder’s Gate, definitely check out Divinity Original Sin 2. I never played the first, and I was skeptical about it living up to BG 1 and 2, but after the first couple hours I was hooked. It is very much worthy of the comparison.

It's not really the same type of game though - with its AP based turn combat and significantly less serious setting and quest design. Don't get me wrong, it's great, but if you want a Baldur's Gate modernization, it's Pillars of Eternity / Pillars of Eternity 2 / Tyranny what you should be looking at :)

The magic of Baldur's Gate 2 comes from way more than the DnD combat though. The character conflicts, plot, side stories, dark humor, etc. come together in a similar way in DOS2, but in a new world different from the Forgotten Realms.
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