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Google Tech Dev Guide

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Re: Google Tech Dev Guide

#141
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what if you don't have a standard library ? You're working on a new device, on a new language ?. Frameworks breed programmers with less adaptability, foundations breed problem solvers that can adapt across problems.

The fraction of engineers at Google to which these conditions apply is tiny. It's absolutely absurd to interview based on some fictitious need. The real reason Google interviews the way they do is not because they need a high bar. Their interviews are structured to preserve the egos of the interviewers and because, like the gaming industry, they can simply due to the sheer number of applicants.

Ego abounds everywhere. However, your point about applicant volume motivating the setting of a high bar for entry is spot on.

This is happening throughout the corporate world. Too many candidates for too few high-paying and elite positions.

My girlfriend works in finance and recently interviewed for a post-MBA position at (arguably) the top company for the work she does. She talked with other candidates, and discovered it was not uncommon to pay thousands of dollars on interview preparation (books, coaching sessions, etc.), and to spend, say, over 100 hours prepping in total... for interviews with a single firm... which you weren't even certain you'd be interviewing with. This trend is only accelerating.

The less pessimistic stance is to just say this is a consequence of greater specialization. The less optimistic stance is to say we are seeing professionalization for the sake of professionalization.

I'm not optimistic.

Re: Google Tech Dev Guide

#142
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Algorithms aren't foundational, in my opinion. Once you understand the syntax of programming, you can start learning about the applications of that syntax, which for 99% of developers rarely ends up in the shape of an explicit algorithm. It's not all bad, debugging is foundational for sure. I'd place a person's debugging skills, their ability to predict bugs, system design, knowledge of common (applicable) libraries…

You seem to have a nonstandard definition of "foundation". It doesn't mean "introductory" or "beginner"; it means "what everything else is built upon".

I’m thinking of it more as foundational from the perspective of a programmer’s skill set, not the code itself.

So in that sense, your ability to debug is foundational to your ability to code anything more than the most basic programs.

Granted, they do provide both of those paths.

Re: Google Tech Dev Guide

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but Google wants the right answer, regardless of the way you think and regardless of the fact that you came up with a proof for P=NP on the interview

This isn't really true. I've asked a few different interview questions in my time, and the number of candidates who have gotten the "optimal" solution currently sits at 0, to any of the questions. Despite this, I've suggested that we hire some of those "wrong" answer candidates. And given the interview feedback I've seen, I'm not the only one like this.

Might be something more recent then, though I agree that there are questions which are more flexible than others

Re: Google Tech Dev Guide

#144

"Given a string S and a set of words D, find the longest word in D that is a subsequence of S." Found under "Foundations of programming" -- this is exactly the type of problem I'd expect as question one under this section. When it's made by Googlers, that is. I make a lot of cool stuff day to day, and usually that requires a lot of code and knowledge about programming and topics that are rather advanced (currently I'…

(Disclaimer: I work at Google). This is going to sound like a humble-brag, but it isn't, I'm trying to give some life advice based on my experience: I have used "CS" algorithmic thinking on multiple projects, I've even used facets of abstract algebra and number theory from my Math degree to further my career and it lifted me out of poverty. Here's an example. A few years ago, I was researching ways to crunch down the…

You’re the guy writing compilers at Google, so ya you’re the exception my friend.

Re: Google Tech Dev Guide

#145
post #66

"Given a string S and a set of words D, find the longest word in D that is a subsequence of S." Found under "Foundations of programming" -- this is exactly the type of problem I'd expect as question one under this section. When it's made by Googlers, that is. I make a lot of cool stuff day to day, and usually that requires a lot of code and knowledge about programming and topics that are rather advanced (currently I'…

Algorithms are tools. Sure, maybe a hammer isn’t interesting in and of itself, but the things you build with one certainly are.

So tell me how learning how to make a hammer (or the physics behind it) is beneficial to the average woodworker or construction worker’s daily job. Sure, using prior knowledge of physics to optimize your hammer swings might be worth while for the guy swinging a hammer a million times a day, but most of us are happy just picking the hammer up and using it to get the job done.

Re: Google Tech Dev Guide

#146
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't. This seems like a typical Google interview question. If you didn't know how to solve it before the interview started, you aren't going to figure out anything other than a brute force solution in 45 minutes. And brute force solution will not get you a good grade in a tech interview at Google. It's idiotic: once you do get hired by Google, easily 80% of your work is copying one proto buffer into another, an…

You're assuming that it's important to actually solve the problem. I'm not sure that's the case - it's really asking whether or not the candidate understands that brute forcing is a poor solution and determining whether they're capable of even looking for a better solution. A lot of developers find it very hard to look past the obvious first solution they find to a more efficient algorithm instead. Specifically compa…

People buy SSDs so that FAANG single page apps take a minute to load.

Re: Google Tech Dev Guide

#147

"Given a string S and a set of words D, find the longest word in D that is a subsequence of S." Found under "Foundations of programming" -- this is exactly the type of problem I'd expect as question one under this section. When it's made by Googlers, that is. I make a lot of cool stuff day to day, and usually that requires a lot of code and knowledge about programming and topics that are rather advanced (currently I'…

In case you think these questions are not actually asked in Google interviews, I should add that I was asked this very question in Google SDE interview just 6 days ago. I failed to answer this and was consequently rejected. Also, the interviewer asked me nothing other than this question. Nothing about the breadth of work that I have done in different sectors, my interest/passion, personal projects etc. I was so upset…

The market for IT folks is excellent and there are many many great companies out there, most of them not very famous. If you've gotten an interview at Google you will definitively find work elsewhere.

Re: Google Tech Dev Guide

#148

"Given a string S and a set of words D, find the longest word in D that is a subsequence of S." Found under "Foundations of programming" -- this is exactly the type of problem I'd expect as question one under this section. When it's made by Googlers, that is. I make a lot of cool stuff day to day, and usually that requires a lot of code and knowledge about programming and topics that are rather advanced (currently I'…

In case you think these questions are not actually asked in Google interviews, I should add that I was asked this very question in Google SDE interview just 6 days ago. I failed to answer this and was consequently rejected. Also, the interviewer asked me nothing other than this question. Nothing about the breadth of work that I have done in different sectors, my interest/passion, personal projects etc. I was so upset…

Wow, an interview should never be so traumatic.. Your experience shows how much the process is broken, one-sided and blind to a person's value and potential. I know it's no consolation, but recently I saw a site with many brilliant people sharing their rejection stories: https://rejected.us/ It just goes to show, if a company cannot see your real worth, don't let it get you down, keep going and prove them wrong.

Re: Google Tech Dev Guide

#149
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems related to Goodhart's law: "When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure." If the hiring process for some tech companies has become so dysfunctional that they actually consider brain teaser coding questions to be meaningful then we should expect that competitors with more results oriented hiring processes will eventually beat them in the market.

Perhaps the tenacity and work ethic needed to study a couple of months for an interview selects for people who would do the job well anyways? Maybe that is what it means to be Googly as a culture fit? Anyways, practicing solving clever small programming problems at least isn’t boring (though I’m beginning to burn out on it), it reminds me of prepping for a high school or ACM programming contest. As long as it elimina…

> work ethic

I sometimes wish people explain what they mean by that, because I'm confused by the phrase. I assume it's some Americanism that has a broad range of meanings. Cramming trivia for interviews doesn't sound like the "work ethics" I see when I google the term, but then again, I recently had a German student explain to me that they understand hard (but dumb) work as what this phrase means.

Re: Google Tech Dev Guide

#150
post #134
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point! I ran into this case studying for interviews a while ago. The "maximum subarray problem"[1] is a common interview question, you are generally expected to be able to come up with the O(n) solution. Well has a great passage about the origins of the problem and how multiple excellent algorithmists could not improve on a O(n^2) run time[2]: > Grenander observed that the cubic time of Algorithm 1 was prohibiti…

It's much more important to explain your thought process, work through the problem, and come up with any solution than it is to come up with the optimal solution in these interviews. I think that's what people who rail on standard coding interviews don't understand. It's not about memorizing the answer to algorithm puzzles. In fact - if a candidate seems to know a problem by heart, that interviewer's feedback will of…

Have you recommended hires for people who didn't find any solution at all? If not, why not?
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