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Lawyer: ‘It’s a Free for All’ for Criminals on BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit)

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Re: Lawyer: ‘It’s a Free for All’ for Criminals on BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit)

#141

Post by masonic »

thatswrong0 wrote: post #6

Yeah, BART police is a joke. I don’t remember ever seeing a BART police officer riding a train with me. I rarely see them in stations. Getting in and out without paying almost seems easier than paying. SF and Oakland officers never stroll through stations, which is so obviously wrong from a public safety standpoint, yet it seems to be policy. Then again I rarely see SF police officers walking the streets as it is. Ye…

  Getting in and out without paying almost seems easier than paying
It is. There's lots of surveillance video showing dozens of riders jumping turnstiles per minute.

Re: Lawyer: ‘It’s a Free for All’ for Criminals on BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit)

#142

Post by masonic »

JustSomeNobody wrote: post #23
thatswrong0 wrote: post #6

Yeah, BART police is a joke. I don’t remember ever seeing a BART police officer riding a train with me. I rarely see them in stations. Getting in and out without paying almost seems easier than paying. SF and Oakland officers never stroll through stations, which is so obviously wrong from a public safety standpoint, yet it seems to be policy. Then again I rarely see SF police officers walking the streets as it is. Ye…

Guns. Every citizen should be armed. /s But really people all just need to show up at city council meetings and demand better.

  city council meetings
No city council has any authority over BART or law enforcement on BART. (Technically, any officer who happens to be in BART and witnesses a crime could make an arrest -- sworn officers have statewide jurisdiction.)

Re: Lawyer: ‘It’s a Free for All’ for Criminals on BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit)

#143

Post by masonic »

glennpratt wrote: post #135
Judgmentality wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> prominently displaying their 150K starting salary I thought that seemed high, but they are still paid quite well. https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Bart-Police-Officer-Salarie...

~$105k based on 1 response, that doesn't seem like much data. The linked job posting shows: > Pay Rate $4,986.87/Month (Base Salary - While in Academy) $5,651.79/Month (Base Salary - Upon Academy Completion)

Not counting overtime, holidays, benefits, or pension. $150K represents the median cost to employ.

Re: Lawyer: ‘It’s a Free for All’ for Criminals on BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit)

#144

Post by mc32 »

masonic wrote: post #140
mc32 wrote: post #90

If BART wants its ridership to feel safe they need two things: increase officer presence (and prosecute vigorously) and two add cameras all over their properties. No fake pretend cameras. Deter and prosecute violators. Looking the other way when things happen, slaps on the wrists, etc., don’t work. I think BART is shy because at least there is one incident of manslaughter by one of their officers. On the other hand n…

one incident of manslaughter by one of their officers If you're referring to Oscar Grant[0], the verdict was involuntary manslaughter, but I thought it was clearly murder (with, perhaps, questionable sanity) -- Grant was fully subdued and not resisting when he was shot. Ironically, the sentence of IM plus the gun enhancement meant more prison time than Voluntary Manslaughter alone would have. [0] https://en.wikipedia…

Obviously they need better training --they should not accidentally shoot people/suspects under control. They could make more use of K9 units to neutralize suspects as well --much as they do in Germany.

We should demand more from their security forces as well as from the public both.

Re: Lawyer: ‘It’s a Free for All’ for Criminals on BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit)

#145

Post by masonic »

ummonk wrote: post #111
ryanmonroe wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone decides not to be a police officer because they aren't allowed to shoot unarmed civilians in the back while they're being held face down on the ground, BART is safer without them.

I'm talking about when someone decides not to confront potential criminals because they might get sent to prison for killing someone when they accidently usetheir pistol instead of a taser. Look, I'm no fan of the police, and often find myself in disbelief when police officers are acquitted (or not indicted) for what can only be described as murder. But the Oscar Grant shooting was clearly a mistake, and whether or n…

  accidently use their pistol instead of a taser
In the situation, with Grant fully subdued and compliant, Mehserle had no business using either.

It was similar to the Rodney King beating in the sense that after King was fully subdued and compliant, Koon and Powell continued to hit him.

Re: Lawyer: ‘It’s a Free for All’ for Criminals on BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit)

#146

Post by masonic »

corndoge wrote: post #21

"Sibia caught a glimpse of a revolver in the man’s waist, and let go. The assailant slipped out just as the train doors closed behind him, he said." I was under the impression that concealed carry permits are extremely difficult to get in the vast majority of California?

  concealed carry permits are extremely difficult to get
In blue or purple counties, it's essentially impossible.

Re: Lawyer: ‘It’s a Free for All’ for Criminals on BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit)

#147

Post by toomanybeersies »

masonic wrote: post #139
toomanybeersies wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the fact that drug dogs at train stations unfairly target poor people and minorities for possession of personal quantities of drugs (traffickers don't take the train), despite rates of drug use being fairly consistent across socio-economic borders. Drug dogs are also generally also inaccurate and respond heavily to their handlers signals, and are therefore susceptible to their handlers biases. They're basically…

unfairly target poor people and minorities How do they train the dogs to recognize which people are poor?

As I said, they respond heavily to their handlers signals. Basically the cops can give someone an odd look and the dog will go and sit next to them.

The false positive rate for drug dogs can be as high as 80%. That's not really any better than just randomly guessing.

Also, people who take public transport tend to be lower-income.

Re: Lawyer: ‘It’s a Free for All’ for Criminals on BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit)

#148

Post by darpa_escapee »

pteredactyl wrote: post #129
darpa_escapee wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What if that layman isn't trying to be a hero. Stray bullets don't care about the shooter's intentions.

The ideal is for the firearm to be a threat deterrence. And that it would not be used.

Seems to me that escalating a situation with firearms increases the chances of a gun being shot.

Re: Lawyer: ‘It’s a Free for All’ for Criminals on BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit)

#149

Post by admax88q »

pteredactyl wrote: post #115

Same is true for San Francisco. Criminals have more rights than children. Or taxpayers... If we are to have a functional civilization we must remain open but also learn how to say no to unacceptable behavior. Especially the egregious. Like you see everyday. People littering, shooting up and shitting on the sidewalk. Meanwhile our legislators are passing laws to limit the amount of restaurants in certain neighborhoods…

You're the second person I've seen to say "Criminals have more rights than children"

Where do you get your talking points from?

Re: Lawyer: ‘It’s a Free for All’ for Criminals on BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit)

#150

Post by [deleted] »

SamReidHughes wrote: post #131
vikingcaffiene wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Just no. What you’re going to have is a shit load of people with guns firing in close quarters. When the police get there they’ll have no idea who the bad guy is. How about we just make the damn trains more safe instead of advocating for Mad Max Thunderdome?

Among the millions (or hundreds of thousands) of uses of a gun in self defense each year in America, most don't involve shootings.

[deleted]
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