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Tell HN: Uptick in mean-spirited comments

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141–150 of 297 posts

Re: Tell HN: Uptick in mean-spirited comments

#141
post #30

Incidentally, if anyone has any suggestions for technical changes/features/tricks that would help fix the problem, I'm all ears. Fending off the decline everyone thinks is inevitable for forums is the main thing I work on. It has been since practically the beginning.

keep track of submission karma and comment karma separately. People should not be able to downvote in comments unless they have earned the karma threshold required to do so from comments. Ex [of what to prevent]. someone submits the latest tech-crunch article first and gets upvotes from everyone else trying to submit it. They can then downvote in comments without first being subjected to a socialization period of ear…

But then what's the incentive for good submissions? If it's gotten to the point where essentially every article from certain sites (eg Techcrunch) gets submitted by karma gold-diggers, it might make sense to just have them auto-submitted so no one gets the karma, but they can still get discussed.

EDIT: Another thought: Only allow submissions from people above a given karma. That way you would always have to earn your stripes through commenting. Downsides: Wouldn't allow sensitive anonymous 'ask HN' posts from throwaway accounts, and we would lose all the good submissions from new accounts.

Re: Tell HN: Uptick in mean-spirited comments

#142
post #30

Incidentally, if anyone has any suggestions for technical changes/features/tricks that would help fix the problem, I'm all ears. Fending off the decline everyone thinks is inevitable for forums is the main thing I work on. It has been since practically the beginning.

Downvoted comments are bad for the community. They are literally negative. Remove downvotes. Anything that truly deserves downvotes probably deserves flagging/deading, too.

Downvotes change how you think about reading comments. Instead of "was this helpful?" you're thinking "do i love this or hate this?". It's polarizing, and as the number of users increases, it's easy for a comment to hit -4 in a couple minutes.

People feel bad when they get downvoted (often because they feel the downvotes are unjust), and some of them turn to trolling or flaming as a defense mechanism. This spreads across threads and infects the whole community. Emotions are contagious.

Also, add the ability to undo your upvote.

Re: Tell HN: Uptick in mean-spirited comments

#143
post #140
post #30

Incidentally, if anyone has any suggestions for technical changes/features/tricks that would help fix the problem, I'm all ears. Fending off the decline everyone thinks is inevitable for forums is the main thing I work on. It has been since practically the beginning.

You're almost there with your "reply time delay". Just take it all the way... Limit the number of times one person can post in the same thread to once (or maybe twice), either from the top node or a sub-node. Example: PersonA says, "blah blah blah..." PersonB says, "You're an idiot because blah blah blah..." PersonA is locked out from replying to PersonB. This will do 7 things: 1. It will eliminate argument strings b…

I'd worry that it also eliminates the opportunity to have those tremendous back and forth type discussions where people help each other and make incremental improvements to the idea they're working on. That's a lot more rare than two people griping back and forth - but what price would you pay for the sublime?

You would really lose the 'discussion' aspect of things by turning it into a 'say once' system.

People in complex situations almost never behave exactly as you'd expect them to. An artificial limit to discussion might have terrible unintended consequences. What about the problem of someone asking a question in their comment.

"Hey, wait a second, what did you mean by X?" [I'm sorry you're prevented from replying in this thread]

Re: Tell HN: Uptick in mean-spirited comments

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe that the less anonymous a forum like this is, the more polite it will be. You have said you want people to speak to each other here as they would in the real world: well, I believe the more strongly you tie their real world identity to their account here, the more polite they would be. My suggestion, similar to that experiment in the past, and similar to twitter, add a "verified user" badge in the users pro…

That's awfully rich coming from someone posting under a carefully-maintained pseudonym.

I was going to ask for some kind of evidence, but it seems I missed this episode: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1353050

So yeah, on the face of it that's some quite scummy behaviour.

Re: Tell HN: Uptick in mean-spirited comments

#145
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're almost there with your "reply time delay". Just take it all the way... Limit the number of times one person can post in the same thread to once (or maybe twice), either from the top node or a sub-node. Example: PersonA says, "blah blah blah..." PersonB says, "You're an idiot because blah blah blah..." PersonA is locked out from replying to PersonB. This will do 7 things: 1. It will eliminate argument strings b…

I'd worry that it also eliminates the opportunity to have those tremendous back and forth type discussions where people help each other and make incremental improvements to the idea they're working on. That's a lot more rare than two people griping back and forth - but what price would you pay for the sublime? You would really lose the 'discussion' aspect of things by turning it into a 'say once' system. People in co…

Good point. (I guess I wouldn't have been able to say that if we adopted my suggestion.) Maybe a one reply limit instead of a zero reply limit.

I know the time delay thing was a good start. I just think it needs to be extended. It seems that threads lose value as they get deeper.

Oh, and I just thought of #8: It encourages you to get back to work since you won't be replying. That's something everyone needs to consider.

Re: Tell HN: Uptick in mean-spirited comments

#146
post #140
post #30

Incidentally, if anyone has any suggestions for technical changes/features/tricks that would help fix the problem, I'm all ears. Fending off the decline everyone thinks is inevitable for forums is the main thing I work on. It has been since practically the beginning.

You're almost there with your "reply time delay". Just take it all the way... Limit the number of times one person can post in the same thread to once (or maybe twice), either from the top node or a sub-node. Example: PersonA says, "blah blah blah..." PersonB says, "You're an idiot because blah blah blah..." PersonA is locked out from replying to PersonB. This will do 7 things: 1. It will eliminate argument strings b…

[deleted]

Re: Tell HN: Uptick in mean-spirited comments

#147
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're almost there with your "reply time delay". Just take it all the way... Limit the number of times one person can post in the same thread to once (or maybe twice), either from the top node or a sub-node. Example: PersonA says, "blah blah blah..." PersonB says, "You're an idiot because blah blah blah..." PersonA is locked out from replying to PersonB. This will do 7 things: 1. It will eliminate argument strings b…

I'd worry that it also eliminates the opportunity to have those tremendous back and forth type discussions where people help each other and make incremental improvements to the idea they're working on. That's a lot more rare than two people griping back and forth - but what price would you pay for the sublime? You would really lose the 'discussion' aspect of things by turning it into a 'say once' system. People in co…

Perhaps further replies could be allowed only if the comments are upvoted/not downvoted?

Re: Tell HN: Uptick in mean-spirited comments

#148
post #30

Incidentally, if anyone has any suggestions for technical changes/features/tricks that would help fix the problem, I'm all ears. Fending off the decline everyone thinks is inevitable for forums is the main thing I work on. It has been since practically the beginning.

Okay, here's a trick. The goal is to detect people who can't discriminate bad stuff from good, can't restrain themselves from replying to a troll (or can't identify when they are doing so).

The mechanism is, counter-intuitively, to allow people to rate their own comments. However, this rating is not to be directly used to affect how the comment is displayed, since that would obviously be easy to game. Instead, it would be used to identify people who can't restrain themselves from engaging in a low quality discussion; ie, replying to a troll or similar.

Obviously we can't expect trolls to rate their own post as trollish, but we can expect at least some people to have the self-knowledge required to admit when they are posting while annoyed or similar.

So, the system assumes that a comment is only as good quality as its parent, or at least, not much better. Obviously, one can make a good contribution in reply to a bad one, but it's not necessarily a problem to discourage this - since the reader of such a contribution has to read the bad contribution to get to the good one.

Internally, each user has their own scale, which their replies - and the replies to their comments - relate to the scales of other users, using the above assumption. A user would then be shown only comments to which they are likely to reply; this means trolls see all the trolls, but quality users see only other quality comments.

There are a couple of potential problems. One is that it would bias people against replying to deeply nested comments; and ultimately, towards making submissions instead of replies. One rather drastic way to deal with this would be to remove the submission mechanism, and only have one conversation tree; the frontpage items would then be the roots of current discussions inferred from the structure of the tree.

The second problem is that while this mechanism would help current users filter out trolls, it would do nothing to help new users find the best discussions. There is a conflict between preventing the system being gamed, and allowing new users to find the best discussions; because the former would prefer the ratings to be secret, but the latter would allow information about them to be public. It is not obvious that there is a workable trade-off.

Re: Tell HN: Uptick in mean-spirited comments

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's awfully rich coming from someone posting under a carefully-maintained pseudonym.

I was going to ask for some kind of evidence, but it seems I missed this episode: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1353050 So yeah, on the face of it that's some quite scummy behaviour.

That's quite a negative word about someone else on a thread about negative comments.

Re: Tell HN: Uptick in mean-spirited comments

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was going to ask for some kind of evidence, but it seems I missed this episode: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1353050 So yeah, on the face of it that's some quite scummy behaviour.

That's quite a negative word about someone else on a thread about negative comments.

It's accurate though. Hopefully more people will take your comments about real world identities in context.
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