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The new Yahoo? Facebook should heed the lessons of internet history

economist.com

141–150 of 236 posts

Re: The new Yahoo? Facebook should heed the lessons of internet history

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They had no plan, neither overall or per product. I seem to remember some leadership there being adamant that they're weren't a tech or internet company, but a 'media' company. I can't remember which one (or ones?) but this embrace of hollywood/media vs technology seems to have been a key factor in their perpetual slide.

That was the big premise during the Terry Semel years. He was a high level executive with Warner Brothers for 25 years. They had no idea what they were doing or what being a media company in the Internet age meant. They flailed about for a decade with confusing ideas of what their strategy and end goal was. How did they go about pretending to be a media company for so many years, while watching others dominate stream…

Wouldn't Netflix become another name on the list of failed acquisitions, like Flickr?

Re: The new Yahoo? Facebook should heed the lessons of internet history

#142
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yahoo failed because they were out-innovated The worst part is that Yahoo innovated a lot ... In incubators, side projects, etc ... But they failed to bring their innovations to their main products, or to turn their side things into full blown products. They had no plan, neither overall or per product. Take emails for exemple, for the longest time (and still now, although not as dominating) THE key to user identity…

> The best non-yahoo similarity I can find is what Google is doing with Blogger. That's a good point. But to be fair everything "social" that Google has touched has died with the exception of YouTube. In fact Google really hasn't done a great job holding onto many other arenas than their main ones. Blogger has been blasted by Medium. Knol was outlasted by Quora. Google Code was beat by Github. Their "shopping" attemp…

YouTube was already market leader when they bought it, as far as I recall.

Re: The new Yahoo? Facebook should heed the lessons of internet history

#143
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Zuckerberg knows they need to create or acquire the next big thing to make it in the long Isn't that exactly what yahoo did?

But Yahoo pretty much ruined companies they bought like Tumblr for example. I’m not saying Facebook won’t make the same mistake but so far they have done a relatively good job with Instagram and WhatsApp. Both of them are very popular and growing. Much different story than Yahoo, at least so far.

I think since they have just this year pushed out the founder of Instagram and will presumably be taking more control of Instagram, we will see how they actually do with it going forward. Up until lately, Instagram has had relative atonomy.

Re: The new Yahoo? Facebook should heed the lessons of internet history

#144
post #81
post #75

This seems implausible precisely because it’s the crowded view. But can anyone recall a time that the crowd correctly predicted the ascent of an unpopular product or the descent of a popular one? I’m old enough to remember Yahoo’s rise and fall. There was a time people thought Zuckerberg was a greedy fool for turning down a $1 billion bid from Yahoo. Oh yeah did we forget about that? Yahoo failed because they were ou…

> Yahoo failed because they were out-innovated The worst part is that Yahoo innovated a lot ... In incubators, side projects, etc ... But they failed to bring their innovations to their main products, or to turn their side things into full blown products. They had no plan, neither overall or per product. Take emails for exemple, for the longest time (and still now, although not as dominating) THE key to user identity…

A very good point. It was hard to know what Yahoo was (or is). In the beginning, remember, they weren't a search engine. They were a curated directory of the Internet. In fact, it was hard for me to realize when they dumped that entirely and switched to a real search engine--despite the fact that I was in this business: I worked for Infoseek!

Re: The new Yahoo? Facebook should heed the lessons of internet history

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was the big premise during the Terry Semel years. He was a high level executive with Warner Brothers for 25 years. They had no idea what they were doing or what being a media company in the Internet age meant. They flailed about for a decade with confusing ideas of what their strategy and end goal was. How did they go about pretending to be a media company for so many years, while watching others dominate stream…

Wouldn't Netflix become another name on the list of failed acquisitions, like Flickr?

That's what I believe, too. If Yahoo had acquired Netflix, or Facebook, they wouldn't have succeeded either.

Re: The new Yahoo? Facebook should heed the lessons of internet history

#146
post #75

This seems implausible precisely because it’s the crowded view. But can anyone recall a time that the crowd correctly predicted the ascent of an unpopular product or the descent of a popular one? I’m old enough to remember Yahoo’s rise and fall. There was a time people thought Zuckerberg was a greedy fool for turning down a $1 billion bid from Yahoo. Oh yeah did we forget about that? Yahoo failed because they were ou…

1998 Yahoo! turned down a 1 million dollar offer to buy Google.

Re: The new Yahoo? Facebook should heed the lessons of internet history

#147
Because someone writing for the economist would know more about internet history than zuckerburg and the people running facebook.

Why is there so many facebook propaganda crap everywhere now?

Everyday without fail, you can expect a few here. If we had real journalists in this world rather than propagandists, that would be an interesting investigation and article.

Why is the entire media/propaganda apparatus from the nytimes to the economist spanning both sides of the atlantic spamming non-stop propaganda about facebook?

Re: The new Yahoo? Facebook should heed the lessons of internet history

#148
post #75

This seems implausible precisely because it’s the crowded view. But can anyone recall a time that the crowd correctly predicted the ascent of an unpopular product or the descent of a popular one? I’m old enough to remember Yahoo’s rise and fall. There was a time people thought Zuckerberg was a greedy fool for turning down a $1 billion bid from Yahoo. Oh yeah did we forget about that? Yahoo failed because they were ou…

> There was a time people thought Zuckerberg was a greedy fool

Are you implying that's no longer true?

Re: The new Yahoo? Facebook should heed the lessons of internet history

#149
It's remarkable that Sandberg is being thrown under the bus for not doing enough to stop Donald Trump from being elected.

What she is (in hindsight) expected to have done is to have insisted that Facebook's news feed algorithm be used as a content filter to suppress stories promoted by politically marginalized groups.

This is much the same way China's government uses its Great Firewall to control which information reaches the people.

During the civil rights era, the Soviets supported the work of Martin Luther King. In the modern world, Russia supports certain third party views and anti-establishment perspectives, for obvious reasons, just as the US supports pro-Ukraine groups and other fringe political groups that are in close orbit to Russia.

So we are being told that Sandberg failed to utilize the firewall capabilities of Facebook to suppress anti-establishment content. We are told this is a big deal because Russia-linked entities spent money to promote some of the ads. Keep in mind the total spend by Russian-linked entities (could be NGOs, private citizens, oligarch-funded research institutes, etc.) was a miniscule $150K in an election with total funding approaching $2B.

Yet Sandberg may be relieved of her position because she failed to anticipate how such a small spend could dramatically influence the outcome of the 2016 election.

News flash: It didn't. There are a lot of reasons to be concerned about some aspects of Facebook -- my #1 concern is the extensive use of dark patterns designed to make people over-share -- but the "not doing enough" critique is complete bunk.

It is 100% motivated by political partisans in the US who unfortunately have a great deal of influence in possible regulation of Facebook and have made it very clear that they plan to use all of their power to force Facebook to act like the well behaved Great Firewall they want.

To be very clear, politicians want Facebook to be used at their bidding as a Great Firewall and they very much want to see certain views suppressed and others amplified. They also want to (and already do) use the massive amounts of metadata held by Facebook, Google, etc., to supplement whatever data they have when investigating Americans, who may or may not have committed a crime. It is, essentially, a transparent social credit system for US officials to use at their whim.

So the only difference between Facebook as politicians want it to be used and China's Great Firewall is that Facebook exists a bit higher up the protocol stack and its censorship/suppression is much more laser-focused and harder to detect.

Re: The new Yahoo? Facebook should heed the lessons of internet history

#150

> A senior marketer for a large American bank says Facebook has made mistakes on measuring engagement, reach, views and other data for no fewer than 43 products. All of the mistakes, he notes, worked in the social-networking giant’s favour. “If these were true errors, wouldn’t you expect at least half to benefit marketers?” he asks. He expects to reduce how much his firm spends on Facebook and predicts that other mar…

That said what really counts is ad spend compared with stuff sold as a result, and anecdotally I gather Facebook is quite effective. I mean my friend sold some luxury holidays with quite modest facebook spend and it's rumoured others got a presidency cheap with similar techniques.
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