Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market • Hacker News Board

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#141

Post by frgtpsswrdlame » Thu, Nov 08, 2018, 2:14 PM UTC

nasalgoat wrote: post #131

peterburkimsher wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is not the résumé. The problem is that nobody is receiving it. I have 3 résumés and I'll make another according to your guidelines. I want only one thing from you. Email addresses. Please tell me somebody who can give me a job if I do this right. I need somebody who can help. Not somebody who will complain. Somebody who cares. Somebody who can give me food and shelter, a minimum wage. Anything.

You appear quite desperate and perhaps this desperation is coming through to the people you talk to and the interviews you do. As a hiring manager I can tell you, desperation is a massive turn-off and red flag. Change your resume as the others have directed you and keep applying. Perhaps take a look at remote work options as well. But you need to dial back the desperation.

I think the problem here is that everyone is willing to provide lots of advice that takes lots of work to follow but no one is actually willing to do the one critical thing that would help this man get a job - giving him a connection.

Can I also ask why desperation is a massive turn-off? Who cares if someone is desperate? Why should we the desperate have to put on all sorts of masks and constantly worry about how we're coming off to you when we're looking for a job? Either we have the skills or not, fuck all your examination of our circumstances.

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#142

Post by barrow-rider » Thu, Nov 08, 2018, 3:33 PM UTC

dleslie wrote: post #58

supertrope wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think employers cackle at the thought of employees being wage slaves. They are unwilling or think its impossible to offer a living wage so high turnover (e.g. 140% per annum) is just a cost they accept.

They aren't cackling like saturday morning cartoon villains; they're applying a rational choice to minimize operation costs. This is less true the closer their personal connection to their employees is, I suspect; but many minimum wage employers have a bureaucratic buffer/barrier between the minimum wage employees and those making the decisions about operational costs.

This is called Middle Management, and exists entirely to buffer high level decision makers from day-to-day workers.

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#143

Post by barrow-rider » Thu, Nov 08, 2018, 3:41 PM UTC

uep wrote: post #89

michaelbuckbee wrote: post #24

Anytime the issue of millenials and jobs comes up, I think you have to talk about what the structural differences in the economy and business world are now: "Thirty years ago, she says, you could walk into any hotel in America and everyone in the building, from the cleaners to the security guards to the bartenders, was a direct hire, each worker on the same pay scale and enjoying the same benefits as everyone else. T…

Doesn't this mean that middle-men are just being inserted who are absorbing some of the productivity (earnings) of the worker? It seems like this would only make economic sense if the end company isn't using them on a regular basis, so overall efficiency goes up by multiplexing an employee out to multiple companies as needed. It seems implied by "Rent-A-Guard", but I'm musing out-loud. I haven't had a chance to read…

> Doesn't this mean that middle-men are just being inserted who are absorbing some of the productivity (earnings) of the worker?

Essentially, yes.

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#144

Post by FiveSquared » Thu, Nov 08, 2018, 7:07 PM UTC

peterburkimsher wrote: post #135

DoreenMichele wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are willing to consider gig work: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JfNAbUX_lN9K3MCNHO15...

I need food and shelter. I don't think that sending applications to hundreds of gigs and getting ignored by most of them is going to provide that. I'm trying to get a bank account now. When that comes, I can try to do things that receive online payments. I'm really trying to bootstrap from zero.

Try to rommate simply your rsume and calm down. Tr to appear confident and charming.

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#145

Post by ananonymouse » Thu, Nov 08, 2018, 7:09 PM UTC

dsajames wrote: post #136

ananonymouse wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's exactly this. I'm a member of this group. I was told growing up by first-generation college graduates that any degree was better than no degree. I had persistent doubts, but was told by those same parents year after year before and during college that "You may not want it now, but you won't regret having it in the future." So not knowing better and not being told any better by the university I attended, I got a…

I don't know who gave that advice, but I'm ten years older than you and was frequently told that a history degree would get me little.

Congratulations! You didn't have ignorant parents or people deep in the Ponzi scheme telling you falsehoods about the relative market value of CLAS degrees.

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#146

Post by barrow-rider » Thu, Nov 08, 2018, 8:33 PM UTC

bargl wrote: post #9

Phrodo_00 wrote: post #2

While the article did a lot of pointing at men not working, it did little to show what the Hole in the "Hot U.S. Market" was. Maybe the people they were talking about would benefit from that information.

There are a TON of Blue collar jobs that are only getting higher pay in the Seattle area right now. Entry level Electrician, 25/hr. After the Apprenticeship 50/hr (2 years I think). I believe plumbing, construction, etc are in the same boom right now. That's a really awesome job for someone who is struggling to make ends meet at a pizza joint (example from article). This is 100% anecdotal and regional. So take it wit…

Similar prices to be had around NoVA / DC. Data center electricians with 2 years experience were at 35/hr, and the Master electricians with experience were roughly double.

No shit, I was a data center manager then and contemplated switching jobs.

Source: I hired both union and non-union (union guys on the side) for electrical work in DC area data centers.

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#147

Post by DoreenMichele » Thu, Nov 08, 2018, 11:13 PM UTC

peterburkimsher wrote: post #135

DoreenMichele wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are willing to consider gig work: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JfNAbUX_lN9K3MCNHO15...

I need food and shelter. I don't think that sending applications to hundreds of gigs and getting ignored by most of them is going to provide that. I'm trying to get a bank account now. When that comes, I can try to do things that receive online payments. I'm really trying to bootstrap from zero.

I did gig work while homeless. I pulled that link off a site I own called pocketputer.com. From there, you can also find the San Diego Homeless Survival Guide and Street Life Solutions, two other sites of mine.

It will also link you to Write Pay, a quick intro to working for Textbroker. You do need a bank account and a PayPal account to make money via Textbroker, but you don't have to apply for gigs. Once you have an account, you select work from a pool of articles. It is possible to make a few hundred a week if you apply yourself. It's not glamorous, but if you need to eat, it can cover that.

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#148

Post by dleslie » Fri, Nov 09, 2018, 1:14 AM UTC

gwright wrote: post #132

dleslie wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You gave many reasons why an employer may be unwilling, but it's the same outcome regardless: an unwillingness to train or pay more.

I don't think that is an accurate summary of the situation at all. In particular your characterization asserts indirectly that that the employer is doing something wrong, that if only they were "willing" the problem would be rectified. But it is nonsensical to think that a business is going to willingly make choices that go against its own self interest, that hurts its business. It makes no sense to hire an employee…

I don't believe I asserted that the employer is wrong in being unwilling to train or pay market rates for labour. There are many valid reasons to be so unwilling.

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#149

Post by shagie » Fri, Nov 09, 2018, 4:14 AM UTC

peterburkimsher wrote: post #127

lordnacho wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well you're closer to it than I am, but I would think there's no viable business migrating data off a decades old platform. You'd definitely have to find the right niche community to get any business at all. > I'll take anything as a job now. I can get my own Working Holiday visa. But I've been turned down by farms and construction companies, not only tech companies. The problem with this approach is that businesses…

I'll take a fast food or farmhand job! But I need an email address of somebody who can give me that job. If you tell me the email address of somebody who can offer me food and shelter, I'll rewrite my résumé for them. But I need to know that there is somebody who cares if I do that. Because I've had a lot of résumé advice that was just complaining, and didn't lead to a job. I need a job, an introduction, an interview…

I would really encourage you to get your resume to match a traditional one page format. Something clean, professional and orderly ( https://zety.com/blog/resume-formats is just a search that seems to have some).

If it doesn't look professional, it isn't something that scans well, well, it doesn't get the appropriate information across in a timely manner. That itself is an important skill.

Consider also that France (you list your address as France) has unemployment at about 9% and youth unemployment rate at about 20%. That may not be the best place to be looking for a job.

Even with being some place for 4 years, it doesn't look like you are someone that will stay in one place long enough to recoup the cost of training a person up to the appropriate skill. This applies to everything from the farm hand and fast food (where you're also competing with that youth unemployment rate) to professional jobs. It costs money to onboard someone - even farm hand. If you aren't going to be there for a year, hiring someone who isn't going to stay is likely to lose money.

That "I'm going to go" isn't only communicated with your scattering of locations and durations, but also the volunteer experience listing CouchSurfing weekly as the top item. This is reinforced with the current extracurricular (you're not a student anymore - they're hobbies if that) listing two items... one of which is couch surfing.

If you want a programming job, computer programing isn't a 'personal interest' listed near the end of the second page - it's a first page top item.

Listing "Ideas" and then having it go to a basically empty page... that doesn't inspire any confidence. Note also that ideas are cheap - it's the implementation of those ideas that demonstrate skill. Maybe there are ideas behind the links in the upper right, but as it is, that's a blank white page.

Of these, the most important I would say is make a boring resume - something that follows the form. No, it doesn't make you stand out, but it also is something that is easy to scan and demonstrates professionalism in communication and presentation.

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#150

Post by geezerjay » Fri, Nov 09, 2018, 9:00 AM UTC

ehrtt wrote: post #92

geezerjay wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is an absurd statement, the market is not a god. It does not have a value system. The word "market" is just a convenient tag to refer to a collection of individuals like you and me looking to buy/sell goods and/or services, and deciding what's best for them given the choices available, their priorities, and the information they have. Thus, when anyone refers to what "the market is willing to offer", they are r…

Yeah, but there are two sides to that (voluntary) transaction. The person bidding for labor and the person offering their labor. If the buyer and seller can't agree then the transaction doesn't take place. The value of the labor is subjective.

> The person bidding for labor and the person offering their labor. If the buyer and seller can't agree then the transaction doesn't take place.

That's the whole point: "the market is willing to accept" only deals that are deemed acceptable to the two parties involves in the negotiation. It takes two to tango. Anyone is free to make outlandish offers but in order to make a deal happen it's absolutely necessary that someone willingly accepts them.