Earlier quoted context omitted.
How does the GPL3 have that intent? AGPL does, but GPL?
My understanding is that AGPL does only for that piece of software, not all layers above it?
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MongoDB's Server Side Public License Is Likely Unenforceable
141–150 of 245 posts
Re: MongoDB's Server Side Public License Is Likely Unenforceable
#142I can understand the sentiment and realize the need to monetize, it's hard when others take your code and make more money out of it then you (which I am assuming is the case). But even if they are right, this doesn't seem smart, it feels like a knee jerk reaction. I imagine that they hope that by doing this they'll cause people who are using mongo on other providers to move to mongolabs, since there is 0 chance of th…
> it's hard when others take your code and make more money out of it then you Just my opinion, of course, but I think this is only true for sales and management types who are profit driven. For engineers and artists, it's not really an issue. We want to see our best work appreciated, primarily.
All the engineers I know still want a paycheck every two weeks. Engineers aren’t (and shouldn’t be!) all Above All This - sure, it’s great to make something and give it away just to help the community, but you still gotta eat.
That said, I think MongoDB REALLY screwed up the execution here, even though I can definitely sympathize with what they were aiming to accomplish.
Re: MongoDB's Server Side Public License Is Likely Unenforceable
#143As a non-lawyer who's tried to understand copyright law, this analysis confuses me; my understanding was that in the realm of source code "by default" you only have rights to use that source code through a license or contract, so it seems odd that any restriction on the terms would be misuse or detrimental to competition, when the option always exists to not use MongoDB. This isn't me trying to argue against the arti…
This uncertainty and confusion is by design and the whole point of this license. It's designed to make people who are not lawyers consider getting a commercial license just to avoid the potential for legal headaches that may or not materialize. I doubt it will work since many people will indeed not want to deal with companies that are dangling legal threats over their own users like this. IMHO there's no other way to…
Disclosure: I work for MongoDB.
Forcing droves of community users to buy commercial licenses is not the intention of the SSPL -- indeed, it cannot serve that function, as it does not obligate them to do anything at all unless they are making the licensed software itself available to the public as a service.
Re: MongoDB's Server Side Public License Is Likely Unenforceable
#144Disclosure: I work for MongoDB. If you look at these two threads you'll find my comments in them, addressing similar concerns to those raised in this one. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18229452 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18229013 To reiterate those comments, the SSPL only affects people who are offering the licensed software to the public as a service. This does not include any software that uses Mon…
Does MongoDB also release their stack or are they exempt from the disclosure requirement?
Apologies if this has been asked a million times -- didn't see it in a skim of your linked discussions nor the FAQ.
Re: MongoDB's Server Side Public License Is Likely Unenforceable
#145Disclosure: I work for MongoDB. If you look at these two threads you'll find my comments in them, addressing similar concerns to those raised in this one. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18229452 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18229013 To reiterate those comments, the SSPL only affects people who are offering the licensed software to the public as a service. This does not include any software that uses Mon…
These things need to be made clear in the license and not in a discussion thread. Otherwise there is too much uncertainity
1. Applicability of this licence - "value derives primarly from MongoDB..."is too vague to be just accepted as is.
2. The extent to which the code is to made open source. There needs to be clear definition of what needs to be included and what doesnt. Who is going to decide what is enough? Otherwise you can leave the thread of lawsuit hanging and it is not good for the ecosystem
Re: MongoDB's Server Side Public License Is Likely Unenforceable
#146Absolutely. This license change takes it completely out of the contention for anything I would have previously considered it for. Can you imagine if Nginx said you had to release any software you run behind it as FOSS?
The SSPL does not create that obligation.
No, because it's even worse than that. "management software, user interfaces, application program interfaces, automation software, monitoring software, backup software, storage software and hosting software" encompasses everything behind the server, everything in front of the server, and basically everything beside the server.
Re: MongoDB's Server Side Public License Is Likely Unenforceable
#147Only a data point here -- after I read about this license change on HN, it took me about 2 hours to struggle over the issue, discuss with my team, and switch from MongoDB to PostgreSql. We are very lucky in that we were into this project for only two months, prototyping and learning the ropes with MongoDB schema. With PostgreSql now, everyone feels secure in a familiar territory. Yes, we have to make changes and its…
I had actually started a new project two days before this drama started (my first MongoDB project in a couple of years) and made the same decision. This license is so bad I've lost faith in the company itself.
Re: MongoDB's Server Side Public License Is Likely Unenforceable
#148Disclosure: I work for MongoDB. If you look at these two threads you'll find my comments in them, addressing similar concerns to those raised in this one. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18229452 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18229013 To reiterate those comments, the SSPL only affects people who are offering the licensed software to the public as a service. This does not include any software that uses Mon…
Does MongoDB also release their stack or are they exempt from the disclosure requirement? Apologies if this has been asked a million times -- didn't see it in a skim of your linked discussions nor the FAQ.
At this point they are exempt which speaks to the double standard. MongoDB makes copious use of open source components. E.g. They use PostGres for their reporting solution and make money off it. What do they contribute back to the PostGres community for this?
Re: MongoDB's Server Side Public License Is Likely Unenforceable
#149MongoDB doesn't deserve all the credit (or blame) for what they've created. The client libraries are true open source projects, and a lot of the good parts of the design have probably come from them. I think they've also accepted a lot of contributions to mongod without compensation, and had the copyright assigned to them. Having the copyright assigned to them is reasonable, but it facilitates them closing an open source project that's received many community contributions, which is unethical IMHO.
Re: MongoDB's Server Side Public License Is Likely Unenforceable
#150Yeah, I'm not necessarily opposed to the general spirit of what they're trying to do here, but this license just doesn't make sense in practice. Now that I've had more time to look at it, I'd really recommend that everybody stay the f%!# away from MongoDB. This bit in particular really hits the nail on the head: Let's assume that it is ok somehow to pass forward other open source software, solving that problem. What…
Hmm ... Would this technically be the ultimate Stallman dream?
No. RMS has stated more than once that he is entirely ok with the "service provider loophole" in the GPL. They made the AGPL for those not ok with the loophole, but he never had any issue with it in the original GPL at all.