Amazon Pitches Facial Recognition to Monitor Immigrants • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon Pitches Facial Recognition to Monitor Immigrants

#141

Post by Fnoord » Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 7:56 AM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #127

durkie wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was something that came up shortly after the Snowden documents were released. I don't remember who made the point (maybe Moxie Marlinspike), but they pointed out how important it is to be able to break the law. That breaking the law is an vital means of effecting change in the US: kids smoke pot illegally and grow up to be adults that push to legalize it. Gay people are more and more open and successfully push f…

That does not work in states like the PRC or Russia. Indeed, in order to live and go on day-to-day, you must break the law. And people do. But, then when the state wants you, they will selectively enforce the law. That's how it works. Let people break the law, who cares, but when we need to arrest them, lo and behold, look, they've broken several laws!

"Qu'on me donne six lignes écrites de la main du plus honnête homme, j'y trouverai de quoi le faire pendre." (If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him.) [1] Attributed to Cardinal Richelieu though authenticity is disputed.

Anyway, dystopian films containing mass surveillance (such as Fahrenheit 451) also cover the very same practice.

[1] https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Cardinal_Richelieu

Re: Amazon Pitches Facial Recognition to Monitor Immigrants

#142

Post by noobermin » Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 7:58 AM UTC

Strongerpass wrote: post #119

noobermin wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a pedestrian and cycling advocate, more regulation of cars seems like a good idea for me. That said, the analogy is just that, an analogy so I don't think it's fair to nitpick it.

> A car traveling 30 mph is absolutely as lethal as a car traveling 10 mph faster than that. What was this an analogy for? I missed it.

As in makewavesnotwar point about surveillance of the general population and not just immigrants.

Re: Amazon Pitches Facial Recognition to Monitor Immigrants

#143

Post by kakarot » Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 8:14 AM UTC

rdtsc wrote: post #10

mohammedbin wrote: post #4

I am not an American and I obviously have no right to meddle in your affairs. But only today Trump tweeted out Obama being against immigration and then from their the rabbit hole went deeper and there was a video of gasp, bernie sanders calling open borders a "Koch brother" conspiracy. I'm beginning to wonder if anyone high up in America really has any integrity? I fail to see anyone who is consistent in their views…

> bernie sanders calling open borders a "Koch brother" conspiracy. Quite right. It wasn't just that Bernie disagrees with open borders, in that video he is visibly upset. He really doesn't like it. (It was the Vox interview I assume, unless you saw another one) Also if you are old enough you might remember large anti-globalization protests around G8, Bilderberg and other such meetings. It is kind of baffling how just…

Chomsky's Profit over People is also a fantastic read.

Re: Amazon Pitches Facial Recognition to Monitor Immigrants

#144

Post by buboard » Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 8:17 AM UTC

makewavesnotwar wrote: post #41

Sure and while you're at it why not implement cameras all over every roadway to automatically ticket you every time you break the speed limit. Or better yet, why not devise a real time geolocation device to be embedded in cars and then lobby for it to be nationally adopted so people literally can't speed? The reality is that very few people want to live in that world and even if we do fully adopt technologies like th…

But have you thought about the children? you can always pile on more legislation if talk about the children, u can even regulate the games they play and the porn they see. I don't think that barrel has a bottom.

Re: Amazon Pitches Facial Recognition to Monitor Immigrants

#145

Post by Vinnl » Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 8:18 AM UTC

durkie wrote: post #102

makewavesnotwar wrote: post #41

Sure and while you're at it why not implement cameras all over every roadway to automatically ticket you every time you break the speed limit. Or better yet, why not devise a real time geolocation device to be embedded in cars and then lobby for it to be nationally adopted so people literally can't speed? The reality is that very few people want to live in that world and even if we do fully adopt technologies like th…

This was something that came up shortly after the Snowden documents were released. I don't remember who made the point (maybe Moxie Marlinspike), but they pointed out how important it is to be able to break the law. That breaking the law is an vital means of effecting change in the US: kids smoke pot illegally and grow up to be adults that push to legalize it. Gay people are more and more open and successfully push f…

Right; it's based on the assumption (which I share) that laws aren't perfect, and that the prime way of finding out whether they are is by people breaking them.

The other requirement is the ability to change laws, otherwise this would indeed only enable selective (i.e. seemingly random) enforcement.

Re: Amazon Pitches Facial Recognition to Monitor Immigrants

#146

Post by buboard » Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 8:21 AM UTC

pbourke wrote: post #126

makewavesnotwar wrote: post #41

Sure and while you're at it why not implement cameras all over every roadway to automatically ticket you every time you break the speed limit. Or better yet, why not devise a real time geolocation device to be embedded in cars and then lobby for it to be nationally adopted so people literally can't speed? The reality is that very few people want to live in that world and even if we do fully adopt technologies like th…

> The reality is that very few people want to live in that world I suppose I'm in the minority, but I would love to live in a world with fewer impaired drivers and senseless motor vehicle accidents.

speed limits and impaired drivers are orthogonal concepts

Re: Amazon Pitches Facial Recognition to Monitor Immigrants

#147

Post by elejo » Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 8:21 AM UTC

alexnewman wrote: post #3

tinktank wrote: post #2

It's just another use-case for them I suppose. Interesting to see how, as tech companies become bigger, they go the same way as companies in all the other industries. I'm not surprised, but I am disappointed.

Stupid question. I actually am a big fan of no borders but what's wrong with this? Seems like America entering the new millennium. Edited also why was this downvoted?

Nobody here will ever complain about illegal aliens because they are wealthy programmers, etc and won't be affected by their unfair competition.

Just look at this tweet I saw a few hours ago from the editor of boingboing: https://twitter.com/xeni/status/1054816681699139584

Imagine her shock when she learns that most people can't afford to hire someone to mow their lawns, mop their floors, or raise their kids! Talk about living in a bubble. Some people here are like her and would never understand the troubles of the working class. And others are terrified of being called racist.

Re: Amazon Pitches Facial Recognition to Monitor Immigrants

#148

Post by monort » Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 8:26 AM UTC

karakot wrote: post #103

Strongerpass wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree in general but I think "A car traveling 30 mph is absolutely as lethal as a car traveling 10 mph faster than that." is a bit weak. The speed of cars matter, obviously. If you are hit by a car driving 50km/h you will die 8 out of 10 times. If the car is only driving in 30 km/h you will only die 1 out of the 10 times. In other words, it's not a linear scale and the idea that you can drive a bit faster without m…

if you're on a highway, then a car driving 30mph is much more dangerous than one which is 10mph over speed limit.

Do you have a statistic confirming that? Most highway deaths are due to speed, not due to driving slow. Driving slow can provoke people behind to do dangerous things, but it's on them, not on a slow driver.

Re: Amazon Pitches Facial Recognition to Monitor Immigrants

#149

Post by buboard » Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 8:30 AM UTC

mohammedbin wrote: post #4

I am not an American and I obviously have no right to meddle in your affairs. But only today Trump tweeted out Obama being against immigration and then from their the rabbit hole went deeper and there was a video of gasp, bernie sanders calling open borders a "Koch brother" conspiracy. I'm beginning to wonder if anyone high up in America really has any integrity? I fail to see anyone who is consistent in their views…

For context , this is the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vf-k6qOfXz0

and yeah, open borders was a libertarian idea but somehow the tables have turned.

Re: Amazon Pitches Facial Recognition to Monitor Immigrants

#150

Post by rexpop » Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 8:32 AM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #127

durkie wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was something that came up shortly after the Snowden documents were released. I don't remember who made the point (maybe Moxie Marlinspike), but they pointed out how important it is to be able to break the law. That breaking the law is an vital means of effecting change in the US: kids smoke pot illegally and grow up to be adults that push to legalize it. Gay people are more and more open and successfully push f…

That does not work in states like the PRC or Russia. Indeed, in order to live and go on day-to-day, you must break the law. And people do. But, then when the state wants you, they will selectively enforce the law. That's how it works. Let people break the law, who cares, but when we need to arrest them, lo and behold, look, they've broken several laws!

Is there a word for this specific legal entrapment?