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Myth of the Brown Recluse

spiders.ucr.edu

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Re: Myth of the Brown Recluse

#141

Post by rurp »

jpttsn wrote: post #82
jngreenlee wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry couldn't help but LOL and sorry for getting off-topic. >Al Gore is an expert on Climate Change. Might need to rethink that. He's a fundraiser and tv personality. Think 'evangelist'. It's not evident that he understands complex systems or probabilities better than say, Taleb. AFAIK, so far all his historic projections have been incorrect. This is the danger of 'celebrity'. Similar with Neil DeGasse. That said, I…

The Taleb thing (going furter off topic) seems too reliant on an “efficient market.” I bet bad surgeons harm patients at a higher rate than good surgeons throw bad suregons out of the boat. https://forbetterscience.com/2016/02/21/macchiarini-and-karo...

Taleb isn't arguing that someone who doesn't look like a surgeon will necessarily be a good one, just that they are more likely to be good, relative to a surgeon who got there with fewer obstacles.

Re: Myth of the Brown Recluse

#142

Post by Matticus_Rex »

tibbon wrote: post #130
Matticus_Rex wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NC native here -- I've found black widows in nearly every apartment and house I've lived in, which is saying something. Only one of those locations was outside a city.

Grew up in Greensboro, NC. Tons of black widows in most sheds/barns, etc. I always thought there were brown recluses around too - but I guess this research is saying they aren't in NC?

I've never seen one. I've seen dozens of spiders that people said were brown recluses, and they never were.

Re: Myth of the Brown Recluse

#143

Post by comesee »

moate wrote: post #132
comesee wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Directly from the article: > I repeatedly have seen the media in their "quest to seek out the truth" write completely speculative stories about the existence of the brown recluse in California. Unfortunately, the truth is not nearly good enough to sell news and therefore, a speculative story is fabricated based upon faulty assumptions. He's strongly and cynically implying that the media doesn't sincerely seek the tru…

He then goes about spending his entire article (and in fact, a whole ass book!: http://www.cornellpress.cornell.edu/book/?GCOI=8014010049221... ) talking about the spider in question and why it's misunderstood by laymen. The man is an expert in his field lobbing a (valid) criticism about media representation of one specific matter.

Criticizing the media with proper rationale is fair, but he's going a step further. He's strongly implying they are doing this for the money. No need for him to imply that or even assign any motive to why the media is wrong on this topic. It suffices for him to say they are wrong and to show how. He's putting forth a bad faith theory and this is also what Trump does. This sort of cynicism / assumption of poor motives towards the media is bad for society.

There's no evidence to suggest they intentionally write brown recluse stories because it sells more. It's just as likely the media also gets innocently wrapped up in the myth. I'm not sure how you're defending that quote.

Re: Myth of the Brown Recluse

#144

Post by rplst8 »

kryogen1c wrote: post #13
ppseafield wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both the widow and the recluse are quite timid. Widow bites are generally not dangerous unless you're elderly, very young, or immunocompromised. They'll swell and be red for a while, but it's not life-threatening. Get near a widow, poke it, and it cowers in fear. The recluse's bite isn't itself dangerous - it's the necrotic bacteria that they carry that can get into your bite, which IIRC happens in about 20-25% of bi…

How interesting! Ive known several people with brown recluse bites and I always assumed the (rather unpalatable) necrosis was from the venom, not some cofactor like bacteria. Upon reflection, it makes total sense. The presentations they had would be identical to serious infection, ie visible red marks on the skin tracing blood vessels and following the blood flow.

I thought they had a hemotoxin in their venom like a viper that contains enzymes that break down red blood cells.

Re: Myth of the Brown Recluse

#145

Post by rplst8 »

kryogen1c wrote: post #13
ppseafield wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both the widow and the recluse are quite timid. Widow bites are generally not dangerous unless you're elderly, very young, or immunocompromised. They'll swell and be red for a while, but it's not life-threatening. Get near a widow, poke it, and it cowers in fear. The recluse's bite isn't itself dangerous - it's the necrotic bacteria that they carry that can get into your bite, which IIRC happens in about 20-25% of bi…

How interesting! Ive known several people with brown recluse bites and I always assumed the (rather unpalatable) necrosis was from the venom, not some cofactor like bacteria. Upon reflection, it makes total sense. The presentations they had would be identical to serious infection, ie visible red marks on the skin tracing blood vessels and following the blood flow.

Yeah it does... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loxoscelism

Sphingomyelinase D

Re: Myth of the Brown Recluse

#146

Post by rplst8 »

ppseafield wrote: post #8
Multicomp wrote: post #4

In GA, I am wary for the black widow and the brown recluse, the former when indoors and the latter outdoors. I've not spotted either in months honestly, but I never stop being wary. As far as CA natives being super freaked out about it...meh? I don't blame you. Fiddler spiders are scary looking and after seeing some of the wounds online, it's quite the eye opener. I have never personally met someone in either GA or A…

Both the widow and the recluse are quite timid. Widow bites are generally not dangerous unless you're elderly, very young, or immunocompromised. They'll swell and be red for a while, but it's not life-threatening. Get near a widow, poke it, and it cowers in fear. The recluse's bite isn't itself dangerous - it's the necrotic bacteria that they carry that can get into your bite, which IIRC happens in about 20-25% of bi…

There may be bacteria, but the venom is known to contain sphingomyelinase D which is an enzyme that causes cell death. That is what causes necrosis.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loxoscelism

Re: Myth of the Brown Recluse

#147

Post by manyxcxi »

cantankerous wrote: post #77

I've lived in Portland OR, Mid MO, and the Kansas City area. In mid-Missouri, the brown recluse is the standard house spider. Pretty much every spider in my house there was a brown recluse. I had a weird bruise-y/necrotic bite on my hip that I assumed came from one that got in bed with me. It healed up fine without any medical intervention even though it lingered for awhile. I suspect a lot of people get bitten over…

Interestingly, I had a similar bite in Portland growing up. I assume the hobo spider got me in bed, but I definitely needed medical intervention, and a little over 20 years later I’ve got a nice silver dollar size scar on my butt cheek.

That’s also how I came to learn that even though I had grown up assuming Oregon had brown recluses, what we really have is hobo spiders with a similarly necrotic bite. Eastern Oregon has some, but it would be a real shock to find one in the Willamette Valley.

Re: Myth of the Brown Recluse

#148

Post by bradknowles »

S_A_P wrote: post #95

I live in Texas. There are brown recluse here. I don't really fear a spider since it doesn't seem like they are all that aggressive to people. The worst part of spiders to me are when I walk through a web. Ive had a bad spider bite that caused great swelling and some necrosis, but I don't know it was a brown recluse. I personally have a nasty fear of wasps, which I cannot rationally explain other than I think they lo…

IMO, you haven't lived in Texas until you have gone into your office (or other room in your house) and found a large black tarantula in the corner of the window. Try sucking that up into even a powerful brand-new Dyson vacuum cleaner and watch the legs move around like crazy because all you did was piss it off.

But frankly, the scorpions bother me a lot more. Especially when they like to hide in your laundry, and drop down onto the floor at night from your attic. You can hear them when they hit the floor.

These days, I sit back one row from a guy we call "Spider Man", because his screen saver is nothing but giant pictures of spiders, 24x7. That will give you arachnophobia faster than anything I know of.

Growing up in Oklahoma, I met plenty of Black Widow and Brown Recluse spiders. My biology teacher collected them. He was extremely annoyed with me one day when I was cleaning some stuff up in the back of the room and the biggest brown recluse I've ever seen decided to take a quick trip up my arm. I managed to catch the thing and put it in a glass container filled with a clear liquid, and he looked at me like I was an idiot and told me "You know that water won't kill those things, right?" To which I replied "Yes, that's why the container is filled with alcohol." He really wanted that thing for his collection, and was quite miffed that I had actually managed to kill the sucker, before he could get his hands on it.

The bite from a brown recluse or a black widow may be worse than a black tarantula that is bigger than your hand, but in my experience, the effect on your bowels is much larger with the tarantula.

Re: Myth of the Brown Recluse

#149

Post by bradknowles »

the_af wrote: post #135
S_A_P wrote: post #95

I live in Texas. There are brown recluse here. I don't really fear a spider since it doesn't seem like they are all that aggressive to people. The worst part of spiders to me are when I walk through a web. Ive had a bad spider bite that caused great swelling and some necrosis, but I don't know it was a brown recluse. I personally have a nasty fear of wasps, which I cannot rationally explain other than I think they lo…

Same here: I fear wasps more than spiders. Some spiders look sort of cute, and even the ugly ones don't seem aggressive, but all types of wasps look aggressive to me, all the time. It doesn't help that I've been stung by wasps more than once, but never by spiders.

Yeah, wasps are much worse for me than spiders.

But scorpions are even worse than wasps. They don't have the sound of their wings beating or the actual capability of flight, but they are much more alien looking -- and acting.

Re: Myth of the Brown Recluse

#150

Post by SOLAR_FIELDS »

bradknowles wrote: post #148
S_A_P wrote: post #95

I live in Texas. There are brown recluse here. I don't really fear a spider since it doesn't seem like they are all that aggressive to people. The worst part of spiders to me are when I walk through a web. Ive had a bad spider bite that caused great swelling and some necrosis, but I don't know it was a brown recluse. I personally have a nasty fear of wasps, which I cannot rationally explain other than I think they lo…

IMO, you haven't lived in Texas until you have gone into your office (or other room in your house) and found a large black tarantula in the corner of the window. Try sucking that up into even a powerful brand-new Dyson vacuum cleaner and watch the legs move around like crazy because all you did was piss it off. But frankly, the scorpions bother me a lot more. Especially when they like to hide in your laundry, and dro…

As a Texan as well, I've been lucky to have never have been bitten by a tarantula. I've never heard what you are saying about bowels before regarding being bitten. What I have heard is that the bite itself hurts a lot more vs a black widow or brown recluse but the venom is pretty weak comparatively.
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