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So You Want to Open a Small Press Bookstore/Artist-Run Space? A Cautionary Tale

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Re: So You Want to Open a Small Press Bookstore/Artist-Run Space? A Cautionary Tale

#141

Post by mcguire »

raffael-vogler wrote: post #134
Symbiote wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Ghost Ship didn't have smoke detectors, a fire alarm, or emergency lighting. It did have blocked staircases and cluttered pathways, and the available staircase was fairly flammable. It had people warning about some of these problems; they were ignored. It looks cool/arty, and OK to wander through in an afternoon, but it also looks like the last place I'd expect to find a party. The closest place I can think of fo…

Freedom requires responsibility. And probably checking the electric facilities and placing some smoke detectors should be considered self-evident. Laws try to make sure everybody acts responsible by placing lots of obstacles to trip over long before anything bad can happen. Now in this case it would have been a good thing - then again though, the laws existed - now the consequence is that dozens of people are still d…

"...self-evident..."

Apparently not, according to the history of such things.

Re: So You Want to Open a Small Press Bookstore/Artist-Run Space? A Cautionary Tale

#142

Post by komali2 »

coldtea wrote: post #104
antt wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Even if I had the time, money and expertise I would never do something like that. Invite only spaces. New members have mentors who are responsible for them. Anyone can be expelled for any reason at any time. It's amazing how much the tone changes when someone is on the line for breaking a 10k machine and having to pay for everyone else using an equivalent machine commercially while they get it fixed.

> Invite only spaces. New members have mentors who are responsible for them. Anyone can be expelled for any reason at any time. Will still end up being a problem if the intention is to preserve the original vision. Mentors change over time, and 2nd and 3rd generation members (mentors of mentors etc) will form gangs and have their own ideas of how things should be.

That sounds like something they could happen in any recruitment system, even open invite.

Re: So You Want to Open a Small Press Bookstore/Artist-Run Space? A Cautionary Tale

#143

Post by Daishiman »

michaelcampbell wrote: post #60
dragonwriter wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It would be more accurate to ask: “How the F can anyone make any money when Starbucks is on every other street corner and has the advantages of scale they have.” Source and roast your own beans, don't overroast the beans, charge a premium over Starbucks for not producing crap coffee from overroasted beans. Starbucks does some impressive work with the candy flavors it adds to distract from their coffee, but...

This is a thinly disguised rant of your tastes vs. Starbucks as opposed to any kind of actual answer. And kind of hipster pretentious douchey to those that may like it. Try again?

No dude, just like fine dining, wine tasting and other things there are definitely margins of wide preference but there's also very clear tastes that are objectionable to anyone who tastes them and is aware of them.

You can have a preference of reds or whites but anyone who's trained can taste when a wine has oxidsized or turned sour and those are pretty objective statements of fact.

Overroasted coffee is definitely a thing if you've done coffee tastings and actually know what coffee tastes like and how the roasting process affects flavor profiles.

Re: So You Want to Open a Small Press Bookstore/Artist-Run Space? A Cautionary Tale

#144

Post by mcguire »

Symbiote wrote: post #139
Tomte wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably not shitty, just oblivious. A Hackerspace in Germany was proud of its smartphone-activated door lock. I was less impressed on their open house event when I saw firsthand how they struggled to open it for several minutes (with no mechanical override on the inside!), while dozens of guests were there. When I voiced my safety concerns they simply didn't seem to understand. I mean it's just a fun hack, right?

It looks like a common setup [1], and of the ones with pictures several don't have a manual override. [1] https://wiki.hackerspaces.org/Doorlock

A door without a crash bar in a public space?

Re: So You Want to Open a Small Press Bookstore/Artist-Run Space? A Cautionary Tale

#145

Post by robotbikes »

clarkevans wrote: post #62

The author talks about this as a charitable (501c3) vs for-profit endeavor. I don't see any talk about using a cooperative structure. Cooperatives don't need IRS approval, since they operate commercially; any profits (and there won't be) are distributed proportionally to the users of the facility via 1099-DIV. Then, you run a membership drive to raise money. The membership then is used to select the board. Anyway, th…

Cooperatives still require everyone to pitch in and some way of dividing the labor and building accountability for performing the tedious tasks that are essential to maintain a legal entity. Unless you have the funds to pay everyone a living wage and in return some form of sustainable sizable income it is difficult to get the same level of contribution from people. In my experience with cooperatives they aren't the magical solution they are imagined to be. Many people are comfortable not bring in charge or arguing about how the people in charge are doing it wrong but they don't have the skills or background ideology to manage decision making cooperatively.

As a legal structure there isn't a ton of support, you are basically creating a member managed LLC or corporation and then transplanting a cooperative agreement on top of it. Getting the same level of commitment from a large number of people is the difficult thing. But if there is a small sense of joint ownership and a shared vision then perhaps it could work but as the article mentioned rotation of leadership and task assignment is a good idea lest one person be stuck holding the bag.

Re: So You Want to Open a Small Press Bookstore/Artist-Run Space? A Cautionary Tale

#146

Post by mcguire »

Symbiote wrote: post #132
coldtea wrote: post #102

> Then, a few months later, you wake up to the headline that 36 people died at Ghost Ship, an artist collective in Oakland, CA. When it’s all said and done, it won’t be the landlord, but the leaseholders, Derick Almena and Max Harris, who’ll be charged with manslaughter and face up to 39 years in prison. That's a big problem right there (all the bureaucracy that has creeped up for having a space or shop etc, a lot of…

Rather than launching into an uninformed rant about bureaucracy, you should read the background to the Ghost Ship fire. The place hadn't been inspected for decades, and didn't have basics like a fire alarm, multiple staircases, or a suitable electricity supply. People who had warned the owner of problems had been ignored. > Shit happens. If adults burn in a building, it's a risk they should be willing to take Ridicul…

... Was not certified for residential/commercial use...

Re: So You Want to Open a Small Press Bookstore/Artist-Run Space? A Cautionary Tale

#147

Post by fermienrico »

SyneRyder wrote: post #53
underwater wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Starbucks equivalent in Australia? The only company I can think of to fill that space would be Gloria Jeans, but they don’t have the same pull as Starbucks.

I'm reluctant to say which company, as I'm not sure how public that information is. It's worth pointing out Starbucks has several competitors in the cafe-chain space in Australia. There are cities in Australia where Starbucks tried opening & then closed down because they were unable to beat the local incumbent cafe chains.

If it’s “Established” chain, I don’t understand your reasoning for not mentioning the business name. It’s public information by the virtue that it’s a cafe, not to mention, a chain.

Why the secrecy?

Re: So You Want to Open a Small Press Bookstore/Artist-Run Space? A Cautionary Tale

#148

Post by curuinor »

FooHentai wrote: post #48
l0b0 wrote: post #4

A recent experience from a hackerspace showed me how incredibly thankless people can be. After working really insanely hard to build an inclusive space with loads of features, every little hobby revolutionary in the community just shits all over the work and proclaims the people actually getting stuff done should just stop and leave it to them. Even if I had the time, money and expertise I would never do something li…

>These days you can't even ban assholes without everyone making like you're the one with a problem. That's been true since always. Speaking as someone that was in that position within a few online communities back in ~98 or so. Strange game. The only winning move is not to play.

Metafilter and Something Awful have successfully banned assholes multiple times.

The secret: paywalls. Only truly dedicated crazy people are willing and able to spend a hundred bucks on annoying people.

Re: So You Want to Open a Small Press Bookstore/Artist-Run Space? A Cautionary Tale

#149

Post by jrochkind1 »

maehwasu wrote: post #82
Hendrikto wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> volunteering requirement Isn’t that an oxymoron?

Read as: "free work requirement"

Not "free work" either. As payment for your membership, a work trade in return for the benefits of membership.

Consumer cooperatives (which are actually legally _owned_ by their members, via member shares in the coop corporation) have been doing this forever. Like the famous (both loved and hated) Park Slope Food Coop [grocery store]. The Park Slope Coop simply calls it a "work requirement", and it is "2 hours and 45 minutes once every four weeks."

The Park Slop coop is famous for crazy internal politics, so a work requirement is definitely no magic bullet against such. The Park Slope Coop is also loved by many though.

Re: So You Want to Open a Small Press Bookstore/Artist-Run Space? A Cautionary Tale

#150

Post by coldtea »

Symbiote wrote: post #132
coldtea wrote: post #102

> Then, a few months later, you wake up to the headline that 36 people died at Ghost Ship, an artist collective in Oakland, CA. When it’s all said and done, it won’t be the landlord, but the leaseholders, Derick Almena and Max Harris, who’ll be charged with manslaughter and face up to 39 years in prison. That's a big problem right there (all the bureaucracy that has creeped up for having a space or shop etc, a lot of…

Rather than launching into an uninformed rant about bureaucracy, you should read the background to the Ghost Ship fire. The place hadn't been inspected for decades, and didn't have basics like a fire alarm, multiple staircases, or a suitable electricity supply. People who had warned the owner of problems had been ignored. > Shit happens. If adults burn in a building, it's a risk they should be willing to take Ridicul…

>Rather than launching into an uninformed rant about bureaucracy, you should read the background to the Ghost Ship fire.

Did you just want to restrict this to the Ghost Ship fire? I only used the quote as a starting point, I don''t intend to talk about the Ghost Ship fire and its particular circumstances.

I'm talking about the creeping codes and bureaucracy in general, and I've already said that inspection is OK. Just not the piling of risks and litigation to the people running the place for every little thing (that goes beyond fire hazard etc, to stupid stuff like someone slipping on the wet floor and suing).

>Ridiculous — those adults aren't in a position to evaluate the risk

They wouldn't have to evaluate any of those things if the place had been properly inspected (as I say in my comment).

If it's "not inspected in years", it's the state that should be put to blame, not the owners.

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