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Facebook Isn’t Sorry, It Just Wants Your Data

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Re: Facebook Isn’t Sorry, It Just Wants Your Data

#141

Post by dabockster »

Zelphyr wrote: post #36
dabockster wrote: post #4

I only largely use Facebook for the events calendar anymore. Big brands and community groups use that part of the site heavily for event promotion. If we want Facebook to become obsolete, we would need to create a comparable event promotion experience elsewhere. So far, though, I've only seen inroads into discovering events already being promoted. The real money is disrupting how events are promoted so the customer d…

My apologies for the accusatory tone but aren't you kind-of proving the point of the article? Keeping your Facebook account because of the events calendar means you place more value in convenience than you do privacy, Facebook knows it, and they're not going to change.

Maybe I am. The point I was trying to make is that FB has event organizers sold on the idea that FB is the place to promote an event. So new events will pretty much elusively be posted to Facebook. You'd have to disrupt that advertising mentality in order to convince users to leave.

Re: Facebook Isn’t Sorry, It Just Wants Your Data

#142

Post by WalterSear »

Alterlife wrote: post #134
WalterSear wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps even better than what you think you like yourself.

What you would like to watch. What you actually watch. This is why I hate YouTube recommendations. It feeds my monkey brain.

I hate them because they are clearly trying to feed someone else's monkey brain.

Re: Facebook Isn’t Sorry, It Just Wants Your Data

#143

Post by echevil »

andrei_says_ wrote: post #129
echevil wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe those who care that much about privacy should use a complete different set of products. I, for one, would be more than happy to let Facebook/Google/Netflix/Yelp to use my personal data to customize their product to serve better content, better ads and better everything to me. I'm much more upset about Yelp when they keep recommending restaurants that I apparently won't care about even I've been feeding them so…

What’s interesting in your Facebook history today is your daily route, when you use your phone, the people you’re connected to through two degrees of separation or by inhabiting the same locations at the same time, and also the provability to swing your vote on a few very particular issues.

I publish my daily route to Google map’s timeline feature. It can show where I have been to in high accuracy. It’s a pretty damn boring route

Re: Facebook Isn’t Sorry, It Just Wants Your Data

#144

Post by echevil »

kbenson wrote: post #135
echevil wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Individually targeted ads" is intrinsically more relevant to the individual and leads to better click through rate. It is in the interest of both the company who run these ads and the user who see these ads (that they're much more likely to see something relevant and useful). If an ad intends to confuse their audience to think they're purely informational material, they probably should not be shown to anyone. That's…

> "Individually targeted ads" is intrinsically more relevant to the individual and leads to better click through rate. It also only works when the advertisers know information about you, and the more they know, the better it works. This presents a perverse incentive to get as much information as possible, even if it's not in the individual's best interest. To lay it out clearly, it is in an individual's best interest…

> It is not in an individual's best interest to have personal, private or even possibly harmful information warehoused at different advertising entities.

Largely depends on who you are, I think. I’m not opposed to sharing any of my information with other ad companies

Re: Facebook Isn’t Sorry, It Just Wants Your Data

#145

Post by kbenson »

echevil wrote: post #144
kbenson wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Individually targeted ads" is intrinsically more relevant to the individual and leads to better click through rate. It also only works when the advertisers know information about you, and the more they know, the better it works. This presents a perverse incentive to get as much information as possible, even if it's not in the individual's best interest. To lay it out clearly, it is in an individual's best interest…

> It is not in an individual's best interest to have personal, private or even possibly harmful information warehoused at different advertising entities. Largely depends on who you are, I think. I’m not opposed to sharing any of my information with other ad companies

And that's your right. But I think you might also be underestimating what "your information" might be.

What if it's a disease you just discovered you have, and you don't necessarily have all the information yet? Should you be targeted before you've had time to look into it, much less come to terms with it?

What if you have a child with health problems or are part of a pregnancy that has problems? Would you want companies that might take advantage of the situation to be able to target you?

What if you've just been turned down for a job? Should a for-profit college with poor qualities be able to target you right afterwards?

There are many times when we find ourselves in an altered state of mind (even if slightly) where we are more susceptible to our baser emotions. Do we really need to engineer a system so companies can better identify when we are in these states for their benefit and to our detriment?

It's fine if someone wants to knowingly trade their information away for some benefit, but they should be able to see what they are trading away and make an informed assessment. What we have now doesn't really allow for that, and once it's out there, it generally has little to no value later (once you're marked as an ex-con, good luck getting that our of everyone's data sets).

Re: Facebook Isn’t Sorry, It Just Wants Your Data

#146

Post by echevil »

kbenson wrote: post #145
echevil wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is not in an individual's best interest to have personal, private or even possibly harmful information warehoused at different advertising entities. Largely depends on who you are, I think. I’m not opposed to sharing any of my information with other ad companies

And that's your right. But I think you might also be underestimating what "your information" might be. What if it's a disease you just discovered you have, and you don't necessarily have all the information yet? Should you be targeted before you've had time to look into it, much less come to terms with it? What if you have a child with health problems or are part of a pregnancy that has problems? Would you want compa…

In all of the three examples you gave, I don't see slightest problem of being targeted with those ads. Getting those ads don't mean I act on it in any way. With or without leaked personal information, I get tons of ads whatsoever, and almost 100% of them goes straight to trash.

If the ad is interesting and relevant enough (which is very rare), the next action would be researching the product online, and very occasionally I'd be super happy to know about it. It sounds absurd if anybody would make important decisions like deciding what treatment to get for health problems based on what people say in ads without doing proper research and consulting doctors.

Re: Facebook Isn’t Sorry, It Just Wants Your Data

#147

Post by John_KZ »

lozaning wrote: post #15
fermienrico wrote: post #9

It’s very simple: As a consumer, we cannot trust any advertisement company. Their goals are in direct conflict with user privacy. In fact it’s not a wishful goal, it is their business model. Our attention is very expensive and everything is designed around us to grab us by the neck so to speak. Flashing ads, stories and feeds. I cannot, absolutely cannot, trust Google, Amazon, Microsoft, Adobe, Facebook, Visa, Amex,…

Curious as to how you lump Adobe in with that group. Last I checked they just wanted everyone to buy photoshop, did something change? EDIT: Damn, F Adobe

For one thing, Adobe reader will scan your Windows computer for documents and upload all the titles and authors to Adobe's servers. I don't know if they also upload content by now, but I would guess they probably just fingerprint it, not upload the whole thing. So yeah, Adobe isn't your friend. Of course neither is Apple (you know how obsessed HN seems to be with Apple)

Re: Facebook Isn’t Sorry, It Just Wants Your Data

#148

Post by John_KZ »

rlnddschn wrote: post #37
fermienrico wrote: post #9

It’s very simple: As a consumer, we cannot trust any advertisement company. Their goals are in direct conflict with user privacy. In fact it’s not a wishful goal, it is their business model. Our attention is very expensive and everything is designed around us to grab us by the neck so to speak. Flashing ads, stories and feeds. I cannot, absolutely cannot, trust Google, Amazon, Microsoft, Adobe, Facebook, Visa, Amex,…

Duckduckgo is an advertisement company.

This is a very uncomfortable truth. For now it seems like they're better than Google, but the fact is we have no way of confirming it, and no guarantee it will stay like this in the long run.

Re: Facebook Isn’t Sorry, It Just Wants Your Data

#149

Post by ma2rten »

fermienrico wrote: post #9

It’s very simple: As a consumer, we cannot trust any advertisement company. Their goals are in direct conflict with user privacy. In fact it’s not a wishful goal, it is their business model. Our attention is very expensive and everything is designed around us to grab us by the neck so to speak. Flashing ads, stories and feeds. I cannot, absolutely cannot, trust Google, Amazon, Microsoft, Adobe, Facebook, Visa, Amex,…

I don't think the next big company will around user privacy. You are willing to pay a premium for privacy, but the problem is most are not. They are happy to give up their privacy if they get something for free in exchange.

Maybe that is going to change if there is more awareness around privacy, but then the big companies are going to adjust. You said we can't trust ANY advertisement company. I presume you mean companies funded by advertisement revenue. But then you actually give the counter example yourself: DuckDuckGo.

I don't think the people that work at DDG and Apple are more trustworthy, but it's in their interest to take a pro-privacy stance. It differentiates them in the market. If the public cared more about privacy and would be willing to pay for it, existing companies would care about it too and potentially change their revenue models.

Re: Facebook Isn’t Sorry, It Just Wants Your Data

#150

Post by JeanMarcS »

aaaaaaaaaab wrote: post #130
pmiller2 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about cereal boxes and soda cans?

Might be possible, but you can’t really advertise the latest LG vacuum cleaner on a cereal box, while on a billboard anything goes.

That’s what I was thinking. The most obvious « ad » for me in shows is when they pick up a cereal box and put it in plain sight.
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