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Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient retroviral infection

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Re: Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient retroviral infection

#141

Post by wu-ikkyu »

lisper wrote: post #54
wu-ikkyu wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Every decision you think you make is actually just a bunch of neurons firing That's like saying "matter is just a bunch of atoms". The reality is not so certain. Our understanding of the fundamental nature of reality (physics) and consciousness (neuroscience/psychology) is still highly theoretical.

> matter is just a bunch of atoms Well, it is. > Our understanding of the fundamental nature of reality (physics) and consciousness (neuroscience/psychology) is still highly theoretical. It's much more than that. No experiment has ever been done that contradicts either GR or the Standard Model. So unless the operation of the brain depends on new, undiscovered physics, we do in fact have all the information we need in…

>>matter is just a bunch of atoms

>Well, it is.

Nah, it's much deeper than that as you well know. The word "just" implies there's nothing more to be explained.

>No experiment has ever been done that contradicts either GR or the Standard Model.

The Standard Model is an incomplete theory that fails to explain many physical phenomenon. Let's not pretend otherwise.

>So unless the operation of the brain depends on new, undiscovered physics, we do in fact have all the information we need in order to completely understand the operation of the brain, at least in principle.

So you admit we don't actually know that consciousness is "just neurons firing", you're just extrapolating?

Re: Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient retroviral infection

#142

Post by nirelCALBO »

mcfunk wrote: post #134

It's almost as if evidence continues to mount that addiction is a health issue and should be treated as such, rather than as a matter of criminality. For anyone interested in further reading on the topic I highly recommend information available from the Institute For Addiction Study ( https://www.theinstituteforaddictionstudy.org/ ).

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Re: Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient retroviral infection

#143

Post by leesec »

arbitrage wrote: post #132
MrEfficiency wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found that I'm addicted to weed, but not harmful drugs. Alcohol ruins your day. I can be productive on weed and/or caffeine. Both of them get work done. I believe I'm addicted to the productivity, when I take them outside of a work environment, I want to work. At what point is this positive reinforced habits?

You're not addicted to weed. Addiction really has a lot to do with making bad decisions in your life to keep doing the addictive behaviour. If its not negatively impacting your life, and it's not interfering with relationships and obligations, you're not addicted.

That's one definition I guess. I don't think there's anything inherently negative about the definition of addiction though.

People can be addicted to lots of good things.

Re: Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient retroviral infection

#144

Post by mc32 »

mcfunk wrote: post #134

It's almost as if evidence continues to mount that addiction is a health issue and should be treated as such, rather than as a matter of criminality. For anyone interested in further reading on the topic I highly recommend information available from the Institute For Addiction Study ( https://www.theinstituteforaddictionstudy.org/ ).

Certain aspects? Sure. All aspects? No. I don’t mind the buying the use and the minor incidentsl things. But if the addiction causes harm, be it physical, material or other major impacts on others, then it becomes both a health issue and a criminsl issue (stealing, hit and runs, deception, and obviously more). But yes, let’s try and treat it first rather than seek punishment first.

Re: Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient retroviral infection

#145

Post by TimTheTinker »

Frondo wrote: post #138
hellofunk wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is a rather unfair distortion of AA. I know many who have been tremendously helped by the program. It does work for many. It's explicitly unreligious -- they have a notion of a higher power, but make the conscious effort to allow each member to have their own definition of this higher power. It's not a religious process in the sense most would think of it. I also don't think it's fair to mention any one…

When it's been studied for effectiveness, it turns out AA works for between 5% and 10% of the people in it; as it also turns out, that's about the same percentage of people for whom any group support program would work. This isn't a distortion, this is the empirical view of AA. As for explicitly unreligious, I would like to include the twelve steps here: 1) We admitted we were powerless over alcohol—that our lives ha…

I think the key here is that people function better, and break addictions better, when they realize and submit to the concept that they do not (and can't) have complete power and control over their own lives. The notion of a "higher power" or "God" can help people get into that posture of "letting go", which helps them find real support outside of themselves (and their addictions).

Being a Christian myself, I know I function much better when I'm consciously in an attitude of trusting God -- it lets me relax and simply be who I am and do what I need to do, without worrying about "fixing things" outside of my control. (And yes, I do take an intellectually rigorous approach to my faith, but that's a different topic.)

Re: Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient retroviral infection

#146

Post by [deleted] »

mc32 wrote: post #144
mcfunk wrote: post #134

It's almost as if evidence continues to mount that addiction is a health issue and should be treated as such, rather than as a matter of criminality. For anyone interested in further reading on the topic I highly recommend information available from the Institute For Addiction Study ( https://www.theinstituteforaddictionstudy.org/ ).

Certain aspects? Sure. All aspects? No. I don’t mind the buying the use and the minor incidentsl things. But if the addiction causes harm, be it physical, material or other major impacts on others, then it becomes both a health issue and a criminsl issue (stealing, hit and runs, deception, and obviously more). But yes, let’s try and treat it first rather than seek punishment first.

[deleted]

Re: Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient retroviral infection

#147

Post by [deleted] »

nardi wrote: post #7
lisper wrote: post #6

I have some bad news for you: your perception of free will is a by-product of your ignorance of how your brain works. Every decision you think you make is actually just a bunch of neurons firing, and those neurons were built by your DNA.

No one actually believes this, including you. You may say you do, and even think you do, but you don’t. Everyone acts as if they and others around them possess free will. We act that way because that’s what we believe. Honestly, I don’t think we understand enough about consciousness and how it arises from physical brains/bodies to make such an extraordinary claim like “there is no free will,” when the entire history…

[deleted]

Re: Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient retroviral infection

#148

Post by Someguywhatever »

coldtea wrote: post #136
hellofunk wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is a rather unfair distortion of AA. I know many who have been tremendously helped by the program. It does work for many. It's explicitly unreligious -- they have a notion of a higher power, but make the conscious effort to allow each member to have their own definition of this higher power. It's not a religious process in the sense most would think of it. I also don't think it's fair to mention any one…

> It's explicitly unreligious -- they have a notion of a higher power, but make the conscious effort to allow each member to have their own definition of this higher power. Very magnanimous of them. But why would a rehabilitation program have a notion "of a higher power", and especially it's own notion of it?

Probably because it helps people? If it is useful in helping people to not harm themselves and others then I don't see anything wrong with that.

Re: Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient retroviral infection

#149

Post by crawfordcomeaux »

mc32 wrote: post #144
mcfunk wrote: post #134

It's almost as if evidence continues to mount that addiction is a health issue and should be treated as such, rather than as a matter of criminality. For anyone interested in further reading on the topic I highly recommend information available from the Institute For Addiction Study ( https://www.theinstituteforaddictionstudy.org/ ).

Certain aspects? Sure. All aspects? No. I don’t mind the buying the use and the minor incidentsl things. But if the addiction causes harm, be it physical, material or other major impacts on others, then it becomes both a health issue and a criminsl issue (stealing, hit and runs, deception, and obviously more). But yes, let’s try and treat it first rather than seek punishment first.

Punishment runs counter to all forms of sustainable learning, according to the science of learning how to learn.

Let's lovingly apply science to criminalization of people being human, rather than criminalizing human behavior. Let's not seek to punish. Let's start exploring other solutions spaces.

Re: Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient retroviral infection

#150

Post by icantdrive55 »

hellofunk wrote: post #135
Frondo wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AA isn't so much a recovery program as a submarine Christian conversion program; it's seldom better than nothing, and often worse. Very consistently and well-marketed, though. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/04/the-irr... (Fun fact: when it started, it wasn't anonymous -- except one of the founders kept showing up drunk in public, and they realized this itself was pretty quickly debunking their succ…

I think this is a rather unfair distortion of AA. I know many who have been tremendously helped by the program. It does work for many. It's explicitly unreligious -- they have a notion of a higher power, but make the conscious effort to allow each member to have their own definition of this higher power. It's not a religious process in the sense most would think of it. I also don't think it's fair to mention any one…

The Rand Corporation did a study on AA years ago.

AA didn't work in their study.

Then again, it's basically all we have? I think my problem is when the AA beliefs are yelled at other members like they were laws.

As a former alcoholic, I was able to taper off alcohol myself. The doctor said I was being stupid. I wasen't going to spend my last 20 grand on a Rehab. I was a mess back then, but tapering off is what worked for myself.

(I personally feel many alcoholics have an underlying psychological problem that should be addressed.)

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