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Ask HN: What is the dark side of working at a successful startup?

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141–150 of 166 posts

Re: Ask HN: What is the dark side of working at a successful startup?

#141
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reading this comment and thread was painful because I immediately agreed and can tell that it was written from the wisdom you gain only by having experienced it first hand. I was so naive when I started out in tech as a starry-eyed fresh grad, only to have my soul slowly crushed somewhere between the transition from slash and burn start-ups and boring behemoth big Corp bureaucracy. How do you guys stay sane in tech a…

> How do you guys stay sane in tech? Recognize that the work life is not the ends, but the means. You're selling your time in exchange for money which then allows you to pursue your personal goals. Also, enter a state of mind where you watch office politics from the sidelines without getting personally invested in it. Maintain a metaphorical "strategic popcorn reserve".

> Maintain a metaphorical "strategic popcorn reserve".

Did you just come up with that? It's absolute gold.

Re: Ask HN: What is the dark side of working at a successful startup?

#142

The dark side is probably joining a cool small tech company with interesting problems and work and cool people. As a result of your (& others work) it becomes successful and one day you look around and realize you no longer fit in -- it's become the big tech company you left and vowed to never work at again. Your peers don't care about tech in the same way and don't have the same passion as you, but are still there r…

Wow. This is so well written and succinct. I love HN for these comments.

Re: Ask HN: What is the dark side of working at a successful startup?

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seen this too. What I can't understand is what makes people hire these clowns ? The first thing you learn about business is that you don't know how it works. The second thing is that no matter how experienced the competition looks, they don't know either. Hiring cannot solve a lack of business knowledge ... and yet everyone keeps thinking, again and again and again, that it does. So what makes people hire these idiot…

If you see such behavior, I encourage you to look for personal relationships. Many of those situations that I have observed the grifting new hires were friends of the investors or founders, etc.

My memory is hazy but the first time I saw this, they were all followers of the same guru as the founders. Not actually Scientology but a similar sort of thing. They lost it all in the dotcom crash anyway!

Re: Ask HN: What is the dark side of working at a successful startup?

#145
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How do you guys stay sane in tech? Recognize that the work life is not the ends, but the means. You're selling your time in exchange for money which then allows you to pursue your personal goals. Also, enter a state of mind where you watch office politics from the sidelines without getting personally invested in it. Maintain a metaphorical "strategic popcorn reserve".

> Maintain a metaphorical "strategic popcorn reserve". Did you just come up with that? It's absolute gold.

There is prior art. I learned the term from German tech blogger Fefe: http://blog.fefe.de/?q=Popcorn-Reserve

Re: Ask HN: What is the dark side of working at a successful startup?

#146
post #21

People. Success breeds some weird shit, especially if you were close to people, which happens a lot in startups with a high work ethic. Friends turn into strangers, friends turn into enemies. Some make more money than you — a lot more — and some make less than you — a lot less. Brews some weird undercurrent sometimes. Money changes things. Even if you don't make real money... the perception of success changes things,…

Successful companies also attract gold diggers. When the company is small, unless everybody is going above and beyond the call of duty, it's likely going to fail. As the company gets bigger, there is more and more latitude for failure. At some point it is successful enough that it can survive having people whose only goal is to direct a large amount of money into their pockets. This can lead to really weird decisions…

Unless you founded a non-profit isn't your end goal to "extract money". Your employees should be in it for love though?

I think what you're really talking about is short vs long term gains.

Unless you give your employees the option to achieve long term gains that out weigh the short term gains, they'd be kinda dumb not to focus on short term gains right?

Of course, you'll still get people who focus on short term gains even if long term gains are better, because they might think it's more likely they can find better success moving on to their own version of long term gains, or they think they'll get screwed over if they put all their eggs in your basket.

Re: Ask HN: What is the dark side of working at a successful startup?

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be very interested in knowing the specific details of how you got your equity stolen in a legal way, if you have some time to reply. Thanks

Basically they pretended to go out of business and reorganized the company slightly to purge all equity holders they didn't actually want to have equity. I lawyered up but I can only afford a five figure lawyer, at that point they were willing to bring in a seven figure lawyer so that was that.

Oh wow. Yes, that's definitely called getting screwed. What a shady world :(

Re: Ask HN: What is the dark side of working at a successful startup?

#148
There have been a lot of great comments hear. I call the problem, "The True Believer Problem". True believers are those who are bought in to the product and vision, and ultimately are personally invested in the company's success, regardless of compensation. However, they are hard to distinguish from the opportunist, who can spot true believers, and their success, and then latch on. They often reflect back to key executive / founders, the values / language / signs of being a true believer, but their investment in the company's success is directly tied to their financial upside. Oftentimes these folks work very hard to market themselves, and their company, but mostly themselves. It can also cause cultural rifts because non-executive true believers spot this behavior and have very little recourse. The culture starts to suffer, little by little.

Startup boards can be highly problematic. Some board members are great, but many can't differentiate the best interest of the company from their own best interest. They can be highly-biased and interested in a getting a good return / new investments opportunities / using the company to leverage their professional network. This often comes into play when your board is only a combination of founders & investors. Who's bringing the industry experience w/o pressures of an exit? Who's sitting on the board because they care?

Many very important things don't matter early. There's a mindset that Compliance / Security / Legal / HR are things that big companies worry about. That they just slow down agile startups. The reality is that the reason that the perception is that those things will slow companies down is two-fold. One, most founders that never worked in leadership roles at legacy or non-startups don't know anything about them. Secondly, boards don't really care about this stuff until they need to be in place for an IPO. They don't even really matter if your plan is to be acquired. This leads to some very toxic environments.

Re: Ask HN: What is the dark side of working at a successful startup?

#149

The dark side is probably joining a cool small tech company with interesting problems and work and cool people. As a result of your (& others work) it becomes successful and one day you look around and realize you no longer fit in -- it's become the big tech company you left and vowed to never work at again. Your peers don't care about tech in the same way and don't have the same passion as you, but are still there r…

This gave me chills. You have to wonder though, how these nightmarish, big companies continue to achieve success and grow. Maybe software engineering, however shoddy, is just not that hard to make good enough.

Re: Ask HN: What is the dark side of working at a successful startup?

#150
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At some point it is successful enough that it can survive having people whose only goal is to direct a large amount of money into their pockets. Seen this a few times, “executives” joining late in the day (weeks before IPO) with 10-100x the stock(options) of early engineers.

Seen this too. What I can't understand is what makes people hire these clowns ? The first thing you learn about business is that you don't know how it works. The second thing is that no matter how experienced the competition looks, they don't know either. Hiring cannot solve a lack of business knowledge ... and yet everyone keeps thinking, again and again and again, that it does. So what makes people hire these idiot…

It seems like a group thing where they buy credibility with industry insiders. IPO's are all about lending credibility (that's why investment banks take a huge chunk), and the do-nothing hires are apparently related to that.
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